When do you think her main title will be relaunched or reworked?

[Dr. Poison]

As a matter of fair occasion, when has Hera ever been depicted as a significant deity to the Amazons? Hera was the one to proclaim the Amazons as sacred to her, but thats about as close as we've ever been to any positive Hera/Amazons interaction.
Let me just postulate that Hera's marriage may not mean as much to anyone, not even herself because she admitted she had longed for a time when she could be alone with Olympus. Add to this, we dont know what the Amazons view is on committed relationships, perhaps they only recognize those between themselves? And maybe they only form temporary relationships? As of yet we dont know.
Regarding lying to Diana... well first of all, Hippolyta lied Artemis into her grave, so it's not exactly a new character trait. Secondly, she lied to keep Hera from learning about it, because she knew both she and Diana would be killed not long after by an extremely vindictive goddess.
It's not like Luthor, he lies to save and serve himself. Hippolyta does it for the sake and safety of Diana, like I imagine most mothers would.



Deathstroke is a mix of getting paid well for something he is very good at and gets a huge amount of kicks out of.
The Amazons, I admit there might be some that enjoy killing men (I imagine most are at Hephaestus now), but the rest I imagine only do so because it is a necessary evil they have to perform, either to maintain their way of life or fulfill the commandments made by the gods.

Like we have Hessia, who left the island and is now apparently aging, so perhaps there is a blessing on Paradise, one that may only endure if men are mostly kept off the island.

So Hera saying the Amazons are sacred to her and beating Orion into respecting them wasn't enough for you to agree that Hera is their patron goddess? To each his own, I guess.

Yes, Hippolyta lied to Artemis, which was very unfortunate but at least she showed genuine remorse and actively tried to make up for her mistakes by taking on the mantle of Wonder Woman and then sacrificing herself during Jimenez's run.

[Dr. Poison]

They were not shown or mentioned because of the time they were being put on a page in. You get away with what you can.

That's an assumption on your part. Scans or it didn't happen.

[numberthirty]

Let alone that her pride probably had more to do with it than her relationship.

[Dr. Poison]

Someone lying to themselves doesn't mean I have to entertain their nonsense. It had not been sacred for decades at the point Hera comes along.

I'm sure that Hera realized that Zeus didn't hold their union sacred any more but she did and that's why she was upset.

[numberthirty]

That's an assumption on your part. Scans or it didn't happen.

Sure, the guy living an alternative lifestyle was not reigned in by what he could get away with at the time he wrote the book.

[numberthirty]

I'm sure that Hera realized that Zeus didn't hold their union sacred any more but she did and that's why she was upset.

Could be. Doesn't mean we know that for sure.

[Dr. Poison]

Sure, the guy living an alternative lifestyle was not reigned in by what he could get away with at the time he wrote the book.

Unless you have a letter from Marston stating what you believe to be true, it's purely speculation on your part.

[numberthirty]

It is speculation based on the life the guy actually lived and the things that are actually on the pages of his run. No one is just pulling that point of view out of thin air.

[Silvanus]

This is the first I've heard of most of the things you listed beyond those innocent husband hunts in Marston's run. Marston's own granddaughter(Christie) said those hunts were nothing more than a playful game with no murder or baby-trading involved like in Azz's sex-raids.

So if Azz has a granddaughter and I can get her to say Hephaestus was just kidding, you'll be satisfied?

I don't see anything on the page to indicate that the ancient Amazons were just playing around--so even if William Marston himself said that that was his intention, I'd say the intention seems not to have been realized on the page.

The bondage scenes were kind of progressive for their time but from what I know, no actual sex was shown or even mentioned within those scenes. As for the rest of the things you listed from Marston's run, I don't have any knowledge of most of those things happening so I'm not really at liberty to comment on them.

My point is really just that you could look at most runs of most comics and come up with a damning list of "deviant acts" as you have done, if you ignore context---but it doesn't mean very much. In fact, that's pretty much what Frederic Wertham did when he condemned comics. He, too, if he were around today, would probably stick "bestiality" and "cannibalism" on a list of the outrages in Azz's run, despite that fact that these things were done only be sinister gods.

What would you have said if this scene occurred in the Azzarello run?:

Capture.jpg

[numberthirty]

So Hera saying the Amazons are sacred to her and beating Orion into respecting them wasn't enough for you to agree that Hera is their patron goddess? To each his own, I guess.

Diana had left Hera in charge of protecting the island. So yes, it's not really enough once you factor in that she had just been put in charge of protecting the island by a woman who had given her a second chance.

[numberthirty]

Let alone that smacking Orion down has a very obvious role in the story that has nothing to do with whether the Amazons are sacred to Hera or not.

[Dr. Poison]

So if Azz has a granddaughter and I can get her to say Hephaestus was just kidding, you'll be satisfied?

I don't see anything on the page to indicate that the ancient Amazons were just playing around--so even if William Marston himself said that that was his intention, I'd say the intention seems not to have been realized on the page.



My point is really just that you could look at most runs of most comics and come up with a damning list of "deviant acts" as you have done, if you ignore context---but it doesn't mean very much. In fact, that's pretty much what Frederic Wertham did when he condemned comics. He, too, if he were around today, would probably stick "bestiality" and "cannibalism" on a list of the outrages in Azz's run, despite that fact that these things were done only be sinister gods.

What would you have said if this scene occurred in the Azzarello run?:

Capture.jpg

That it reminds me of the Marston run.

Seriously though - I'm not sure why it continues to be an issue that i don't like certain aspects of Azzarello's run. Not everyone has to like the same things.

[Silvanus]

That it reminds me of the Marston run.

Seriously though - I'm not sure why it continues to be an issue that i don't like certain aspects of Azzarello's run. Not everyone has to like the same things.

Truly, it's fine with me that you don't like it. But, you know, this is a discussion board. If you post something, people are probably going to discuss it. And not everyone who discusses it is going to agree with you. The presence of "deviant acts" in Wonder Woman is an issue because you have brought it up as an issue. Trust me--when I say something positive about the run, there is generally someone to disagree. If everybody thought the same way, what would be the point of posting?

[Dr. Poison]

Truly, it's fine with me that you don't like it. But, you know, this is a discussion board. If you post something, people are probably going to discuss it. And not everyone who discusses it is going to agree with you. The presence of "deviant acts" in Wonder Woman is an issue because you have brought it up as an issue. Trust me--when I say something positive about the run, there is generally someone to disagree. If everybody thought the same way, what would be the point of posting?

If just seems like anytime I say anything negative about Azz's run, I become a target around here like I'm speaking blasphemy or something. If someone doesn't agree with me not liking Azz's run, I'm fine with them putting me on ignore(really).

[Silvanus]

If just seems like anytime I say anything negative about Azz's run, I become a target around here like I'm speaking blasphemy or something. If someone doesn't agree with me not liking Azz's run, I'm fine with them putting me on ignore(really).

As you said, everyone doesn't have to like [or dislike] the same things--and that's not personal. Speaking for myself, I'm not "targeting" you; I'm just disagreeing with you. And if it makes you feel any better, when I say something positive about Azz's run, someone usually disagrees with me.