Spider-Family redundant

[mysterio1989]

Recently I have found Marvel has been dropping the ball in creating a Spider-Family. They add nothing to the Spider-Man mythos other than a redundant character with Spider powers. Alternate universe versions I can buy, but new characters set in the 616 that are only connected to Spider-Man because they have Spider-powers is just rehashing the clone saga.

Does Spider-Man really need the cliche super hero family like Batman and Flash.
My answer no.

What are your thoughts members.

[jimishim12]

Peter to Marvel is vanilla ice cream, there are limits to tell about a still heavily guilt ridden geek manchild.

[mysterio1989]

I find Miles Morales a bigger bore, non of his fights are life threatening. "Oh no Green Goblin what do I, Oh venom blast."
And now that he's some dimensional refugee its like Marvel taking the worst pages from DC.

[MarioHerald]

As a big Scarlet Spider (Kaine) and Silk fan, I am afraid I HEAVILY disagree with you, mysterio1989.

Having read their appearances, I don't feel they are redundant.

Sure, they have some similar powers, but the differences in their abilities (however small or big) and, more importantly, their experiences and personalities give ample margin to tell stories and narratives that severely differ from those of Peter's in genre and tone. Or at the very least, in outlook.

To see an example of HOW DIFFERENT they can get, I invite you to click the CBR thread linked in my signature and read a detailed opinion of myself and others on Kaine's series (with minor spoilers, of course). He (and Ben Reilly) may have started just as clones, but they grew to find their own voices, their own tricks (Mark of Kaine, impact webbing), fight styles and their own adventures.

Come take a look.

P.S.



http://dasuquin-universe.tumblr.com/...ly-bought-some

[jimishim12]

As a big Scarlet Spider (Kaine) and Silk fan, I am afraid I HEAVILY disagree with you, mysterio1989.

Having read their appearances, I don't feel they are redundant.

Sure, they have some similar powers, but the differences in their abilities (however small or big) and, more importantly, their experiences and personalities give ample margin to tell stories and narratives that severely differ from those of Peter's in genre and tone. Or at the very least, in outlook.

To see an example of HOW DIFFERENT they can get, I invite you to click the CBR thread linked in my signature and read a detailed opinion of myself and others on Kaine's series (with minor spoilers, of course). He (and Ben Reilly) may have started just as clones, but they grew to find their own voices, their own tricks (Mark of Kaine, impact webbing), fight styles and their own adventures.

Come take a look.

P.S.



http://dasuquin-universe.tumblr.com/...ly-bought-some

They all owe to Peter being the pioneer of the mantle. They are all taking from his own unique scope as a spider based hero than he himself is, they just all have different identities. Kaine is literally a grimdark clone of Peter and Gwen is Peter as a rookie. Silk/Cindy is Asian animegirl Peter and Miles is Blaxican Peter with no sense of humor.

[MarioHerald]

Something that I consider I should bring into this discussion is that, although I understand the possible apprehension one may have at seeing a character similar to your favorite rising in popularity and the fear that he or she will replace him, it is the following:

Why should they be only "menaces" for Peter (or Batman, or Flash)?

I believe these characters can also be excellent opportunities for Peter/Spider-man (I mean, besides their own independent value).

I mean, Peter never had any brothers. Now he has someone he can (kind of) call one.

Peter lost Gwen. Now he can visit a version of her who knows his secrets and even shares a similar guilt.

He has wondered what would happen were he to fall or hang up the web-shooters. Now he has a young man who explained to him exactly what would happen, who continued his legacy (in his world) and who he can now befriend and mentor.

And speaking of legacies, he has now a person who can answer him how the far future of his own legacy will look like.

And a new friend of his own age who is starting at this but he can connect to and guide.

And a girl who knows a thing or two about Spider-lore and even worked at Web-corps (the shadowy organization that is tracking all of them).

And if he ever wanted to know what he would look like as a woman, ....

And they can all share moments, support and protect one another, establish links and grow as people and as the menaces JJJ knows they are.


And he can now access and do this with the supporting characters of all of them too! (I want Ganke to intern at Parker Industries).

[mysterio1989]

Something that I consider I should bring into this discussion is that, although I understand the possible apprehension one may have at seeing a character similar to your favorite rising in popularity and the fear that he or she will replace him, it is the following:

Why should they be only "menaces" for Peter (or Batman, or Flash)?

I believe these characters can also be excellent opportunities for Peter/Spider-man (I mean, besides their own independent value).

I mean, Peter never had any brothers. Now he has someone he can (kind of) call one.

Peter lost Gwen. Now he can visit a version of her who knows his secrets and even shares a similar guilt.

He has wondered what would happen were he to fall or hang up the web-shooters. Now he has a young man who explained to him exactly what would happen, who continued his legacy (in his world) and who he can now befriend and mentor.

And speaking of legacies, he has now a person who can answer him how the far future of his own legacy will look like.

And a new friend of his own age who is starting at this but he can connect to and guide.

And a girl who knows a thing or two about Spider-lore and even worked at Web-corps (the shadowy organization that is tracking all of them).

And if he ever wanted to know what he would look like as a woman, ....

And they can all share moments, support and protect one another, establish links and grow as people and as the menaces JJJ knows they are.


And he can now access and do this with the supporting characters of all of them too! (I want Ganke to intern at Parker Industries).

I see your point and while I'm glad you enjoy it their are just some things that reinforce my opinion of the Spider family. For one Kaine to me was always a villain or anti villain in some cases this is a guy who stalked Ben Reilly across america because daddy loved the new baby, laughed at old woman that died on the floor, and killed Kraven's defenseless butler.
Spider-Gwen is better off unaware of the multiverse given how her main strength comes from being grounded character.
Anya she might as well become a different character with different powers since she could become whatever different writers needed her to be.

[Xalfrea]

No harm in trying out a Spider-family, IMO. If it works, great. If it doesn't, oh well. At least we would finally be given an answer instead of constantly speculating and arguing on whether or not it would work.

[Punisher007]

As yes, the "martyr complex" that some people have when it comes to Peter rears it's head again. The constant whining/bemoaning is also highly amusing.

As for the question, NO they're not redundant. They're NOT the "same character" beyond a basic power-set (and even that varies from character to character). So if you honestly think that the thing that TRULY defines a character is their powers, then maybe they're "redundant" to you. I think that their, you know, ACTUAL CHARACTER defines their character. So they're far from redundant to me.

[Mr.Hype]

First post!

Miles is cool. He is not Peter. Nor he should be.
The quality of stories determine the value of the characters in the long term.
We had a lonesome Spider Man swinging through the city for decades, made unique through his powers and personality, we grew up watching him grow up countless times in different versions, we saw him die in different occasions by different writers, lose a friend, lose a love, possessed by aliens, cloned, married, buried alive by a cold war metaphor, cloned again, have a kid, lose the kid, watch his wife die then find out she faked her death because stalker, lose the aunt, get the aunt back, tell the aunt his secret identity, find out his love two timed him with his greatest enemy, tell the world his secret identity, fight captain america, fight iron man, lose the aunt again, bring her back because divorce magic, watch aunt marry the dude older than the older dude, get fired, crazy bachelor hijinx then get possessed by ock, get body back and so on.

Now we have different Spider Men prowling the streets while looking up to this milestone character, whose trials and tribulations serve as inspiration for these new ones as they develop their own powers and personalities, staying true to the core mythology while introducing many concepts and situations through different eyes.

So to answer your question, I don't think its redundant at all, on the contrary, I think it's plain to see it is necessary.

Peter finally making the rounds as an experienced spider with a legacy may just be the solution to an incredibly stale formula.

Of course, they might just blow em all up in Secret Wars for all I know, maybe Miles is the only one that survives.

[mysterio1989]

As yes, the "martyr complex" that some people have when it comes to Peter rears it's head again. The constant whining/bemoaning is also highly amusing.

As for the question, NO they're not redundant. They're NOT the "same character" beyond a basic power-set (and even that varies from character to character). So if you honestly think that the thing that TRULY defines a character is their powers, then maybe they're "redundant" to you. I think that their, you know, ACTUAL CHARACTER defines their character. So they're far from redundant to me.

Ahh yes the assumption that I'm a Peter fan means I'm afraid of him being replaced as flagship comment.
Personally I'm okay with Iron Man being the flagship of Marvel. Spider-man works best as the under dog.

I like new characters with unique different powers not the same powers popping up. Example with Bat family being a bunch of people with gadgets and the same martial arts fighting style boring or the Flash family where everyone is super fast also boring. If their needs to be alternate versions of Spider-Man fine but let it be in their own little world unaware of the others existence no need for team ups and or making this horrid idea of a spider corp thats DC thing with multiverse crossover not Marvel.

[Greekfire13]

Oh here it goes a Miles fans pissed off at a Peter fan. First off I always hated the legacy hero family trope long before Miles getting new series recently so you can keep you hostile approach to a minimum. Second I'm not the only one who find Miles OP with his crap power venom blast even when he gets his own villains i.e his Uncle Bendis still falls for the deus Ex Venom blast. and Third I always hated the Spider family because it added nothing to Spider-Man other than they all have spider powers how original! (end of sarcasm), if he needed a support team of heroes no need to look further than Venom, Sandman, Punisher, Human Torch and Silver Sable actual character with different powers and skill sets. None of them being a spider clone (well theirs venom, but does a symbiote count)? As to Miles I was indifferent to him because I find he was a character of the Ultimate verse but now in the 616 just to riff off DC's confusing mess of characters of alternate universe just annoys me.

I would hardly call Miles' venom blast Deus Ex Machina. I mean you are really overstating its power. It has never been a one hit KO. It is apart of Miles' arsenal yes, but Miles has only really used it to finish off a very slim amount of his enemies. I can think of off the top of my head only the Rhino, the Scorpion, and Venom. And even in those fights it wasn't simply his venom blast that defeated them. He had to use his full arsenal. It took him several venom blasts, punches, and kicks to defeat venom. Rhino's suit put him at a great strategic disadvantage from the beginning so I won't really talk about him, as he was more of a throwaway villain anyway. And the Scorpion fight was really early on in Miles tenure but even then Miles had to brawl with him before finally using his Venom Blasts to put him down.

Miles didn't defeat Electro, his Uncle, Doom, the Spider-Fly Twins, Anthony Masters, Batroc, Roxxon Brain Trust, Giant-Woman, or even Osborn and many other villains with his Venom Blasts. He may have used them during his fights with them but that is as expected as it is apart of his arsenal as is his camo ability and most recent his energy bursts. Yet ultimately what he used to defeat many of them was a good old fashioned punch and or kick to the face.

EDIT: I'd say Miles' Venom Blast is more of a tool to frustrate and annoy his opponents, not defeat them. Heck, there are many opponents of his who've been blasted several and I mean several times with it and sustained little to no damage at all from it. All it did was piss them off.

[Moriarty]

Recently I have found Marvel has been dropping the ball in creating a Spider-Family. They add nothing to the Spider-Man mythos other than a redundant character with Spider powers. Alternate universe versions I can buy, but new characters set in the 616 that are only connected to Spider-Man because they have Spider-powers is just rehashing the clone saga.

Does Spider-Man really need the cliche super hero family like Batman and Flash.
My answer no.

What are your thoughts members.

so you want a Spider Family but you don't want them to have spider powers or any kind of connection to Peter?

[dragonmp93]

And yes the assumption that I'm a Peter fan means I'm afraid of him being replaced as flagship comment.
Personally I'm okay with Iron Man being the flagship of Marvel. Spider-man works best as the under dog.

I like new characters with unique different powers not the same powers popping up. Example with Bat family being a bunch of people with gadgets and the same martial arts fighting style boring or the Flash family where everyone is super fast also boring. If their needs to be alternate versions of Spider-Man fine but let it be in their own little world unaware of the others existence no need for team ups and or making this horrid idea of a spider corp thats DC thing with multiverse crossover not Marvel.

Well, to get a family like that, he would have to be with the Avengers or join the X-men.

[MarioHerald]

I see your point and while I'm glad you enjoy it their are just some things that reinforce my opinion of the Spider family.

Thanks.

For one Kaine to me was always a villain or anti villain in some cases this is a guy who stalked Ben Reilly across america because daddy loved the new baby, laughed at old woman that died on the floor, and killed Kraven's defenseless butler.

Spider-Gwen is better off unaware of the multiverse given how her main strength comes from being grounded character.

Anya she might as well become a different character with different powers since she could become whatever different writers needed her to be.

Well, regarding Kaine, that was sort of one of the points of his first solo series: can a character like him, a murderer, achieve redemption?

And the answer is spoilers:

Sometimes no, it's not possible. But that doesn't prevent one from trying again in other ways. Or from being a cool champion/guardian to an endearing Aztec demigodess girl

end of spoilers

I agree with you regarding Spider-Gwen. On one side, yeah, she being involved with the other spiders of the main universe can make for some wicked great stories. However, I also fear if this possibility is abused, it can take valuable time that is best invested in seeing more of her unique universe (at least, at this stage). More so if she spends 90% out of her own story from now on.


Anya has a lot of possibilities with her particular origin and Spider-cult connection. I am happy Dan Slottt is making use of it by putting her with Spider-Uk and the Master Weaver to work solving the Web of Life crisis.