So sick of Jean Grey and her Phoenix Drama.

[Carabas]

I'm not sure how you can say that when he had Jean herself say "I'm not sure how long the Phoenix will allow me to stay on this plane" as well as the Phoenix conciousness and the other Phoenix Avatars. The Phoenix was also called an actual cosmic entity in his run.

Not really. When you manifest the Phoenix force, you become too large to fit into this world and have to evolve into something larger, is what that line means. That there's dozens of Phoenix forcers at once pretty much proves it's not a singular entity but the ultimate form of telekinesis, as is explicitly stated at some point. "Phoenix" is just the name that Shi'ar philosophers give to this ascended state.

[Carabas]

The whole Jean Grey/Phoenix is a story that is told and retold so many times her entire character has been reduced to that.

That goes for like 95% of all DC's and Marvel's output.

[Ethereal Stormultt]

I don't care how many shitty phoenix stories they do.

The Phoenix and it's mythos have so much potential.
Jean needs to be brought back so we can have a phoenix comic with quality stories.

[Ruby Summers]

Jean Grey repressed? Somebody didn't read Dark Phoenix Saga.

Jean's very in tune with nature and doesn't hold back. It's a shame Morrison held her back by giving her 'planetary stroke' and shipping her off to White Hot Limbo.

The entire reason the Dark Phoenix Saga worked was because that's not how Jean Grey usually behaves, which is why the Hell Fire Club had to break her down so she wouldn't be so repressed/squeamish about using her powers to do what ever she/they wanted. Because she's super repressed. Like literally. By Charles Xavier. Who put psychic blocks in her brain. To repress her. Literally.

[just another user]

Let me get this straight: you're all "sick" of the Phoenix, yet come here to discuss the Phoenix even more. Interesting.

It's logical. How are the cartoon makers meant to know if we don't post about it on the Internet. 1bulma1 speaks for a sizeable proportion of us.

[cwatz]

Its not Jean or Phoenix that are directly the problem, its how the property has been used in poor storylines and frequency since, not to mention constant changes to it.

They need to put it on ice for a bit, and when they do decide to use it again, do something creative with it, not run the same old type of stuff. If they wont do that, then have it like Morrison where she just has it all the time. Tone it down, make it a small piece, whatever the case.

And quit throwing it at every character in the universe. That has never worked out.

[Phoenix Egg]

I don't care how many shitty phoenix stories they do.

The Phoenix and it's mythos have so much potential.
Jean needs to be brought back so we can have a phoenix comic with quality stories.

Exactly. Why ditch a great character and intellectual property when you can just find better, more creative people?

It's the same for Wolverine. The coming death story is just a bunch of hacks scraping the bottom of their admittedly shallow barrels of creativity.

And quit throwing it at every character in the universe. That has never worked out.

One of the greatest ironies of today's x-creators and editors is their creation and propulsion of Hope and disinterest in Rachel. The cognitive dissonance must be staggering.

[cwatz]

I don't care how many shitty phoenix stories they do.

The Phoenix and it's mythos have so much potential.
Jean needs to be brought back so we can have a phoenix comic with quality stories.

All true, but the problem is fatigue. AvX was terrible on its own AND did massive damage to the phoenix property, Hope, this Quire crap, the list goes on.

At this point they almost have to lay off the throttle for a while before they can touch it again. Let the damage they have caused heal.
And for the love of god keep it with Jean.

[OptimusPrime114]

I am planning a fanfic Marvel Universe called Earth-1138. In this universe, Jean Grey embodies the Phoenix Force without any dying or "dark" side effects.

I ask this to anyone who has extensive knowledge of all things Phoenix: how would this be possible?

[just another user]

I am planning a fanfic Marvel Universe called Earth-1138. In this universe, Jean Grey embodies the Phoenix Force without any dying or "dark" side effects.

I ask this to anyone who has extensive knowledge of all things Phoenix: how would this be possible?

Her sweet nature prevents her from going dark. She never meets Mastermind and does not get perverted by him. Her teammates respect her and she has a nurturing environment.

[OptimusPrime114]

Her sweet nature prevents her from going dark. She never meets Mastermind and does not get perverted by him. Her teammates respect her and she has a nurturing environment.

Are you being serious or are you mocking me?

[just another user]

Are you being serious or are you mocking me?

Neither really!

[cwatz]

I am planning a fanfic Marvel Universe called Earth-1138. In this universe, Jean Grey embodies the Phoenix Force without any dying or "dark" side effects.

I ask this to anyone who has extensive knowledge of all things Phoenix: how would this be possible?

Quite easily.
Originally it was just meant to be a part of Jean. In DPS, think of it like Jean as the super-ego (extreme when it comes to good, morals, all that stuff) and the phoenix as the id (does whatever it wants).
Then it became a "force". Jean and her children were supposedly destined to be the ones who could control/wield that force. Jean and the Phoenix were then basically two sides of the same coin. They could be independent of one another, but still part of the same thing.

The only reason Jean went nuts was the Mastermind stuff, not to mention no one had idea what the phoenix was back then, not like it could be prepared for.

In short her (and Rachel) can control it with ease. Freakouts are the exception.

[ariwl1]

When the Phoenix was first established as being a cosmic force, Claremont described it as her version of Excalibur. She can exist without it and vice versa, but she (and her descendents) are destined for it.

[PwrdOn]

Claremont never intended for Jean to go evil. That was all misogynist Byrne at work.