So sick of Jean Grey and her Phoenix Drama.

[Carabas]

I'm talking about Morrisons X-Men as well. In his run it still had a separate consciousness.

Care to give an example?
Morrison uses it as a metaphor for enlightenment, very much like the supercontext from The Invisibles.

[People Of The Earth]

Fourth, the "Dark" Phoenix ate a star because that's how a Phoenix feeds itself. You might as well hate an ant eater for eating an ant colony.

By doing so, she ended billions of lives.
That's genocide.
That's the very reason why they had to retcon this as a "it never was Jean to begin with" story.
No need to rationalize the act afterward, it was an universal crime - grandiose or not.

[DDD]

thank you. The sad truth is that I love jean. she was one of my favorite leads but gosh jean/Phoenix and her dying all the time is just too much now.
[/B]

This hasn't happened at all before or since 2004. Are you even reading comics?

[DDD]

By doing so, she ended billions of lives.
That's genocide.
That's the very reason why they had to retcon this as a "it never was Jean to begin with" story.
No need to rationalize the act afterward, it was an universal crime - grandiose or not.

No, the Phoenix eats stars, that's how it works. Jean didn't choose to eat a star to end lives, unlike Wanda.

I would also like a list of feats that makes the Phoenix "too powerful". Because I can't think of anything it has done that loads of other super heroes haven't.

[Silvermoth]

DDD, don't be rude.

I love jean but I agree that she needs to not die for a while. Hopefully marvel gets it now!

[Carabas]

No, the Phoenix eats stars, that's how it works. Jean didn't choose to eat a star to end lives, unlike Wanda.

I would also like a list of feats that makes the Phoenix "too powerful". Because I can't think of anything it has done that loads of other super heroes haven't.

When you extinguish billions of lives, nobody really cares all that much if you did it on purpose or not, especially if there's absolutely no indication that you'll be more careful in the future.

[DDD]

When you extinguish billions of lives, nobody really cares all that much if you did it on purpose or not, especially if there's absolutely no indication that you'll be more careful in the future.

Scarlet Witch, Cyclops, Beast and Captain America have all voluntarily commited genocide and are considered heroes. Scarlet Witch used her powers to murder 1000s of human beings on earth. The Phoenix was simply feeding itself from a star, as it is meant to feed itself. If that star going out killed most all parasites leeching off it's energy, those lives have only themselves to blame.

[DDD]

Scarlet Witch's genocide was an act of complete abuse, hate and selfishness. She didn't use her powers to cure cancer or HIV, no. She willingly chose to exterminate an entire race. Now, she's even a "hero" in Marvel Heroes game, for Jean's sake! Don't lie to me that what Jean did was unforgivable.

Secondly, talk about overpowered! Being able to exterminate things by simply saying "no more". How come she does not say "no more rape... ever" instead? Why won't she say "no more..." right as a conflict starts? She never will, Scarlet Witch is one of the most terrible villains in comics.

[Carabas]

Scarlet Witch, Cyclops, Beast and Captain America have all voluntarily commited genocide and are considered heroes. Scarlet Witch used her powers to murder 1000s of human beings on earth. The Phoenix was simply feeding itself from a star, as it is meant to feed itself. If that star going out killed most all parasites leeching off it's energy, those lives have only themselves to blame.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make? Jean Grey is considered a hero as well.

[Anarchist]

The Phoenix is a fundamental part of the universe. An entity so far above our comprehension that we can't possibly apply human moral to it.
Just look at Galactus, he is also above the needs of lesser species because he is just as fundamental.
People accept that.They should accept that for the Phoenix too.

Is the Phoenix cruel? Sure.
Is it mercyless? You bet.
Is it evil though? Not in the slightest.
It is the embodiement of Life, Death, Rebirth and most importantly: Evolution.
You might as well try to paint the meteor that wiped out the Dinosaurs a criminal.

[ExodusCloak]

Care to give an example?
Morrison uses it as a metaphor for enlightenment, very much like the supercontext from The Invisibles.

Jeans arc was about the loss of her humanity. One example of where the Phoenix consciousness shows itself is when it speaks to here in HCT. Or before that when she says she's not sure how long it'll allow her to reamain on this plane -hence why Xorneto was able to kill her.

[Bart]

Care to give an example?
Morrison uses it as a metaphor for enlightenment, very much like the supercontext from The Invisibles.

Yep. That's how i read it too. Jean elevating to a higher consciousness, telekinetic godhood. Grant said in interviews he wanted to explore what if Jean really was a goddess.

It is why she says you were always waiting for yourself to arrive and at the very end, Jean's words from the future appear in Jean's phoenix words from the present.

[ExodusCloak]

Yep. That's how i read it too. Jean elevating to a higher consciousness, telekinetic godhood. Grant said in interviews he wanted to explore what if Jean really was a goddess.

It is why she says you were always waiting for yourself to arrive and at the very end, Jean's words from the future appear in Jean's phoenix words from the present.

Morrison said that in regards to why her relationship went down the toilet. I don't recall him ever saying that she was the actual Phoenix force. In fact in the Wizard Special he calls it a separate cosmic entity that's been lingering around Jean lately.

[Bart]

Morrison said that in regards to why her relationship went down the toilet. I don't recall him ever saying that she was the actual Phoenix force. In fact in the Wizard Special he calls it a separate cosmic entity that's been lingering around Jean lately.

Because he'll spoil his story before it fully ends right?. New xmen 154 reveals the Jean Grey's words from the future come from the phoenix "force" in the present. There's still a force but this jives exactly with what Claremont explained in that it is neither being nor entity and that Jean and it are not mutually exclusive.
If anything he established the phoenix as a higher elevation that certain mutants can attain, a super consciousness. Before she fully understood it all, Jean kept asking are these words from the future and she wasnt far wrong.

[From The Shadows]

Im not sick of Jean Grey but I'm sick of Marvel and their Pheonix Drama. Every major plot revolves around the pheonix it seems and every epic story! Writers! You do not have to do your own version of the DPS! Really! You don't! I'm quite over it. I'll read back issues!

Lets just have some good ole Jean. The Pheonix is getting boring to me. It needs small doses.