Is iceman gay ?

[William300]

Meh, I never saw all the "signs" that everyone says pointed to him being gay all along, but I'm not opposed to a gay Iceman as long as the stories are good. I ultimately think that adult Bobby will remain straight though. I mean really when has Marvel ever allowed time travel stories to have any lasting effects beyond characters from other eras getting stranded in the present.

[Kurolegacy]

Yes he's gay if 05 Bobby is really him. I say this as someone who thinks that it's stupid that a writer would change a character's sexuality based on an internet meme.

I think Stan Lee said it best. While talking about Spider-Man, it still applies:

"I think the world has a place for gay superheroes, certainly. But again, I don’t see any reason to change the sexual proclivities of a character once they’ve already been established. I have no problem with creating new, homosexual superheroes."

"It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, or anti-black, or anti-Latino, or anything like that. Latino characters should stay Latino. The Black Panther should certainly not be Swiss. I just see no reason to change that which has already been established when it’s so easy to add new characters. I say create new characters the way you want to."

[PwrdOn]

Did Jean Grey outing Ice-Man turned the tide on the marriage vote?

Fixed for you.

[William300]

I think Stan Lee said it best. While talking about Spider-Man, it still applies:

I completely agree with Stan. I've stated similar things elsewhere and was accused of bigotry because of it, which is ironic considering I've been begging for a Black Panther film sense MCU Phase 1.

[Kurolegacy]

I completely agree with Stan. I've stated similar things elsewhere and was accused of bigotry because of it, which is ironic considering I've been begging for a Black Panther film sense MCU Phase 1.

Yea if you ask me it's that kind of creative bankruptcy that's part of the reason why endearing new characters are so hard to come by. Marvel would rather retcon this and that with their older characters than even try to make anything new. Just look at how well the risks that they took with characters like Kamala, Miles or even Silk paid off in the end. Hell even without creating new characters, it seems like people call for a victory when Marvel makes an established character gay yet still shafts the gay characters that they already had, pushing them even further into the shadows than bringing them out into the light. People celebrate them making Iceman gay but what about characters that were already around and openly gay like Northstar, Karma, Anole, Bling, Wiccan, Hulkling or Karolina Dean? These characters range from having been around for decades to having come after the 21st century yet the only time a big deal is being made by the LGBT crowd is when a straight character is retconned gay as though they willfully ignore that there was representation of them in comics before now.

[DDD]

Fixed for you.

Jeen definitely turned that tide. She always does.

[Ambaryerno]

Yea if you ask me it's that kind of creative bankruptcy that's part of the reason why endearing new characters are so hard to come by. Marvel would rather retcon this and that with their older characters than even try to make anything new. Just look at how well the risks that they took with characters like Kamala, Miles or even Silk paid off in the end. Hell even without creating new characters, it seems like people call for a victory when Marvel makes an established character gay yet still shafts the gay characters that they already had, pushing them even further into the shadows than bringing them out into the light. People celebrate them making Iceman gay but what about characters that were already around and openly gay like Northstar, Karma, Anole, Bling, Wiccan, Hulkling or Karolina Dean? These characters range from having been around for decades to having come after the 21st century yet the only time a big deal is being made by the LGBT crowd is when a straight character is retconned gay as though they willfully ignore that there was representation of them in comics before now.

On the other hand, Kamala, Miles, and Silk were all built on existing characters or properties in some way; Miles took over as Spider-Man in 1610 after Peter died, while Silk also relies on the Spider-Mythos. Kamala assumed the vacant Ms. Marvel name. Even X-23 initially relied on her connection to Wolverine to establish herself.

Introducing completely new characters and making them a success is HARD. For every Kitty Pryde, you have dozens of Shark-girls, Eye-boys, and other wallpaper fodder (show of hands, who HONESTLY expects ANY of Bendis's X-kids to remain relevant for more than a couple years before they're swept aside? Even polarizing Tempus is destined for limbo simply because of her powers).

[Kieran_Frost]

Yea if you ask me it's that kind of creative bankruptcy that's part of the reason why endearing new characters are so hard to come by. Marvel would rather retcon this and that with their older characters than even try to make anything new. Just look at how well the risks that they took with characters like Kamala, Miles or even Silk paid off in the end. Hell even without creating new characters, it seems like people call for a victory when Marvel makes an established character gay yet still shafts the gay characters that they already had, pushing them even further into the shadows than bringing them out into the light. People celebrate them making Iceman gay but what about characters that were already around and openly gay like Northstar, Karma, Anole, Bling, Wiccan, Hulkling or Karolina Dean? These characters range from having been around for decades to having come after the 21st century yet the only time a big deal is being made by the LGBT crowd is when a straight character is retconned gay as though they willfully ignore that there was representation of them in comics before now.

Errrrr... you do know "the LGBT crowd" on CBR have a whole thread celebrating all the characters you listed. Wiccan is leading the poll as the most popular. You should a) visit the thread, b) don't assume because you don't see the thread we don't cebrate and make a big deal of the few LGBT heroes we already have

[Kurolegacy]

Errrrr... you do know "the LGBT crowd" on CBR have a whole thread celebrating all the characters you listed. Wiccan is leading the poll as the most popular. You should a) visit the thread, b) don't assume because you don't see the thread we don't cebrate and make a big deal of the few LGBT heroes we already have

Yea I'm well aware of that thread just as I'm aware of all appreciation threads. But the appreciation thread doesn't even come close to the sheer amount of jumping up and down celebrating that was going on from what was going on in the days that followed the poorly written retcon scene that was Jeen telling teen Bobby that he was gay. Gillan's run on Young Avengers wasn't even getting that level of joy when he basically made the entire team sans Kate and Tommy LGBT and his handling of the subject matter was worlds better than Bendis'.

[William300]

Yea I'm well aware of that thread just as I'm aware of all appreciation threads. But the appreciation thread doesn't even come close to the sheer amount of jumping up and down celebrating that was going on from what was going on in the days that followed the poorly written retcon scene that was Jeen telling teen Bobby that he was gay. Gillan's run on Young Avengers wasn't even getting that level of joy when he basically made the entire team sans Kate and Tommy LGBT and his handling of the subject matter was worlds better than Bendis'.

Yea, Young Avengers had a well written romance between Wiccan and Hulkling yet it didn't get near the attention as the random Iceman reveal did. It's as if Iceman being a well known character puts the reveal above stories that actually had good writing and characterization.

[Kieran_Frost]

Yea I'm well aware of that thread just as I'm aware of all appreciation threads. But the appreciation thread doesn't even come close to the sheer amount of jumping up and down celebrating that was going on from what was going on in the days that followed the poorly written retcon scene that was Jeen telling teen Bobby that he was gay.

Obviously the first ever A-lister outed as gay was going to be huge. A founding X-man, one of the original Marvel characters: that's pretty big. That's obviously going to come with a lot of attention, but people still love and support the other LGBT characters. It's not an either/or

Gillan's run on Young Avengers wasn't even getting that level of joy when he basically made the entire team sans Kate and Tommy LGBT and his handling of the subject matter was worlds better than Bendis'.

Yea, Young Avengers had a well written romance between Wiccan and Hulkling yet it didn't get near the attention as the random Iceman reveal did. It's as if Iceman being a well known character puts the reveal above stories that actually had good writing and characterization.

Errrr... from the "LGBT crowd": YES IT DID! It was getting massive praise and squeals of joy. On top of that it was one of the most critically acclaimed series of 2013, won the GLAAD media award, and the reviews and LGBT threads were bursting with praise (and tears when Wiccan/Teddy took a break). I'm sorry, but I call utter rubbish on the idea we didn't heap it with praise, love and celebration. Utter rubbish! Now obviously Iceman's outing drew a lot of love (and hate) from many who maybe don't normally talk about these issues (and even more attention from media who again don't often focus on comics -- we are talking A-lister vs. C-list team); but "the LGBT crowd" were just as active in praise (and defending) of Gillen's Young Avengers as we were of Iceman's outing.

[DDD]

Why are most recent gay mutants Tweens? Is Marvel after the 1D fanbase money?

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Yea, Young Avengers had a well written romance between Wiccan and Hulkling yet it didn't get near the attention as the random Iceman reveal did. It's as if Iceman being a well known character puts the reveal above stories that actually had good writing and characterization.

Yeah, but you can chalk that up to Young Avengers being a hipster comic that no one was buying. A smaller readership would naturally lead to less discussion, cult characters being what they are.

[William300]

Errrr... from the "LGBT crowd": YES IT DID! It was getting massive praise and squeals of joy. On top of that it was one of the most critically acclaimed series of 2013, won the GLAAD media award, and the reviews and LGBT threads were bursting with praise (and tears when Wiccan/Teddy took a break). I'm sorry, but I call utter rubbish on the idea we didn't heap it with praise, love and celebration. Utter rubbish! Now obviously Iceman's outing drew a lot of love (and hate) from many who maybe don't normally talk about these issues (and even more attention from media who again don't often focus on comics -- we are talking A-lister vs. C-list team); but "the LGBT crowd" were just as active in praise (and defending) of Gillen's Young Avengers as we were of Iceman's outing.

you may have praised it highly. but the fact is that Wiccan and Hulkling didn't get near the attention that the Iceman reveal/retcon got when it deserved much more. I mean when you compare the reactions the Iceman one was huge, the internet practically exploded.

[DDD]

Same reason people don't complain about any indie comics. When they think they are crap. Whereas an established popular title has a lot of invested readers.