Is Batwoman's origin outdated?

[Cipher]

It'll stick comfortably at least through the next reboot, and possibly beyond that. It'll only become a problem when they can no longer keep her under thirty-five while still having been booted under DADT (and given that twelve issues of comics don't necessarily correlate to a year in fictional time, I don't see that being a concern until another line-wide continuity reboot).

When that does happen, as long as it isn't wildly out of place -- and unfortunately I don't see that happening in the near future -- I hope they do find some way of incorporating discrimination into her origin, as I like major superhero books to turn an eye toward social issues whenever they can. Although the DADT origin was wonderful as it allowed her to show both her need to help others while still remaining unflinchingly true to herself in one concise setup. Add an encounter with Batman to provide a catalyst for her turning her skills toward superheroing under the Bat-mantle, and it's one of the best superhero origins in recent years.

[Celgress]

Indeed, that's core I always enjoyed and you can keep those. The DADT angle was interesting, but you could easily leave it behind in the future to have her feeling like her hands were tied and needed to do more.

Damn I actually read the thread title as "Is Batman's Origin Outdated?", shows why you should always read the first post boys & girls lol.

Yeah I think the DADT aspect will have to eventually be retconed, but not for a decade of thereabouts.

[Don C]

I'm not really sure it'll ever be "outdated". As others said, her origin came about before DADT was repealed, and just because some time passes, it doesn't mean her origin isn't legit anymore or anything. I always loved her origin and thought it was great.

Eventually "some time" will be replaced with "a lot of time." Comics characters don't age in real time. Ten years from now, Kate Kane will still be in her mid-twenties. When that time comes, reader will asking how she was kicked out of the military for something that ended when she was a child.

[Flash Gordon]

A major part of Batwoman's origin is her being kicked out of Westpoint for being a lesbian under DADT. Except that within a year of doing that storyline, DADT was repealed. So my question is, how long can they go before that part of her history is too outdated to be used as part of her origin? And what could they replace it with? This strikes me as an example of the real world intruding on comics. Sort of like all those Marvel stories that revolved around the World Trade Center prior to 9/11.

Uh nah, that is still a sadly REALLY recent stigma.

[quinnzel]

Eventually "some time" will be replaced with "a lot of time." Comics characters don't age in real time. Ten years from now, Kate Kane will still be in her mid-twenties. When that time comes, reader will asking how she was kicked out of the military for something that ended when she was a child.

I see your point, but even if a lot of time passed, the DADT storyline would still be valid if the new storyline took place during the time that DADT was still in effect. And even though DADT has been repealed, it's not a magic Band-Aid that suddenly makes everyone accepting of the LGBTQ+ community. There's still plenty of people who discriminate on that basis, and unfortunately, it stands to reason that even an institution like the military wouldn't be completely free of that bias.

[xMatt]

Uh nah, that is still a sadly REALLY recent stigma.

I see your point, but even if a lot of time passed, the DADT storyline would still be valid if the new storyline took place during the time that DADT was still in effect. And even though DADT has been repealed, it's not a magic Band-Aid that suddenly makes everyone accepting of the LGBTQ+ community. There's still plenty of people who discriminate on that basis, and unfortunately, it stands to reason that even an institution like the military wouldn't be completely free of that bias.

I wonder if it is too pessimistic to think that an origin story based on discrimination will be 'timeless'...

[PretenderNX01]

I've actually wondered that myself. It was pretty soon after her comic came out that Don't Ask, Don't Tell was overturned by congress.

Considering how they fear aging a character, using real world events does date her pretty soon. She has to have made it through Westpoint by 2011 so she's aging after that. I think they'll just have to drop it and emphasize the rest of her origin story.

She could be targeted for harassment by a corrupt individual. That will probably always happen.

[Mia]

It'll work for several more years. When the time comes to recon it, I hope they do something more broad, but still timely. Like have her leave in a whistle blowing situation, or at least in protest of how a whistle blower is treated.

I personally don't think that her story works period.

Let's see...
She's a cadet at WP and a member in the army at a time when being gay/admitting to being gay will get you kicked out of the services. Added to that if you are separated from the army/or kicked out of one of the service academies before you graduate you have to repay every single penny that the government invested in you (which can total to at least half a million dollars for all 4 years). So what does Kate do? She has a same sex affair out in the open where she was spotted. Does that make sense? Does that sound responsible? Who did she think was going to repay all that money when she gets her ass kicked out of school?

Kate says that she wants to serve, yet instead of getting her degree and applying to one of the law enforcement agencies like the ATF, FBI, CIA or becoming a police officer. She only decides she's going to be a superhero after seeing Batman fly over? Really?

Batwoman just seemed to me to be a shoehorned character whose appearance in the Batbooks never made sense. She just seemed like a retooled version of the old Helena Bertinelli/Huntress. Except with a different hair colour, religion and sexual orientation

If DC really wanted to add some lgbt representation to the Bat books then they should have done something with Selina's friend Holly was already included in the books, out and stood in as Catwoman when Selina was pregnant. Further she showed that she was much more of a hero by taking responsibility for her mistakes and not running away from life.

[shino1]

So I wanted to point out LGBT minority STILL discriminated against in military are trans people, you can totally get discharged for being trans.
So they can reboot her and turn her into a transgender lesbian.

[Tupiaz]

No, not yet, but I think it will be, give it a few more years. As long as we can say Batwoman has been active / in training for a good decent amount of time, we can use that origin, but if we get another reboot, or even if we just don't keep her aging in real time through the next several years, it'll get to the point where it's silly. Like a black superhero in 2015 whose origin involves not being able to vote as a young man in 2006.

Politicians is still trying to prevent poor/black people from voting be making ridiculous voter registration laws and limited the length of time when you can vote. The voting system in the US is still not free and fair. For instance by not having proportional representation and using plurality voting system.

[Claude]

I personally don't think that her story works period.

Let's see...
She's a cadet at WP and a member in the army at a time when being gay/admitting to being gay will get you kicked out of the services. Added to that if you are separated from the army/or kicked out of one of the service academies before you graduate you have to repay every single penny that the government invested in you (which can total to at least half a million dollars for all 4 years). So what does Kate do? She has a same sex affair out in the open where she was spotted. Does that make sense? Does that sound responsible? Who did she think was going to repay all that money when she gets her ass kicked out of school?

Wasn't her girlfriend blackmailed into revealing the relationship, rather then them being "spotted" together?

[mathew101281]

Thus is the problem with creating characters that are to tide to current events. The best characters are the ones that have origins and elements that are broad enough that they can fit in any era.

[Nick Miller]

I personally don't think that her story works period.

Let's see...
She's a cadet at WP and a member in the army at a time when being gay/admitting to being gay will get you kicked out of the services. Added to that if you are separated from the army/or kicked out of one of the service academies before you graduate you have to repay every single penny that the government invested in you (which can total to at least half a million dollars for all 4 years). So what does Kate do? She has a same sex affair out in the open where she was spotted. Does that make sense? Does that sound responsible? Who did she think was going to repay all that money when she gets her ass kicked out of school?

Kate says that she wants to serve, yet instead of getting her degree and applying to one of the law enforcement agencies like the ATF, FBI, CIA or becoming a police officer. She only decides she's going to be a superhero after seeing Batman fly over? Really?

Batwoman just seemed to me to be a shoehorned character whose appearance in the Batbooks never made sense. She just seemed like a retooled version of the old Helena Bertinelli/Huntress. Except with a different hair colour, religion and sexual orientation

If DC really wanted to add some lgbt representation to the Bat books then they should have done something with Selina's friend Holly was already included in the books, out and stood in as Catwoman when Selina was pregnant. Further she showed that she was much more of a hero by taking responsibility for her mistakes and not running away from life.

You are applying real world circumstances to the Batworld.

Nothing wrong with that, but notonce did i think about Kates army wages

[thwhtGuardian]

Damn I actually read the thread title as "Is Batman's Origin Outdated?", shows why you should always read the first post boys & girls lol.

Yeah I think the DADT aspect will have to eventually be retconed, but not for a decade of thereabouts.

The basic tenents are the same for Batwoman too