Page 3 of 9 FirstFirst 1234567 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 133
  1. #31
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    I'd like to explore those parallels further. What were the analogues (who did Clark represent, for example), and what do the parallels ultimately say about the real life events that inspired them?
    Well, to me, the whole passage where Clark gets beat up by the cops was reminiscent of those events a few months back, when police officers beat up a black man to death for "resisting arrest" and got away with it, which led to public protests all over the country (there were two cases of this I believe) with Clark -being the immigrant figure that he is- in the role of the black guy and the cops in the role of, well, the cops. His refusal to fight back, the part where every one is just sitting down, and the scene with the chain, are also reminicent of famous peaceful protests, like with Ghandi or Luther King.
    As for what they meant, well, I'll join Rakzo on the fact it commented on the abuse of power and britality toward the common man, and on the systemic nature of said abuse towards minorities (Clark, as an exposed alien, being a stand-in for minorities in general, and most notable visible minorities, who can't just put a pair of glasses and pretend to be WASP).
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Well, to me, the whole passage where Clark gets beat up by the cops was reminiscent of those events a few months back, when police officers beat up a black man to death for "resisting arrest" and got away with it, which led to public protests all over the country (there were two cases of this I believe) with Clark -being the immigrant figure that he is- in the role of the black guy and the cops in the role of, well, the cops. His refusal to fight back, the part where every one is just sitting down, and the scene with the chain, are also reminicent of famous peaceful protests, like with Ghandi or Luther King.
    As for what they meant, well, I'll join Rakzo on the fact it commented on the abuse of power and britality toward the common man, and on the systemic nature of said abuse towards minorities (Clark, as an exposed alien, being a stand-in for minorities in general, and most notable visible minorities, who can't just put a pair of glasses and pretend to be WASP).
    The black man's name was Michael Brown and he was shot to death. Is it okay to have a powerful white guy represent minorities and act like a white savior to protect the people of Kentville who were gathering to celebrate Superman and not, as the people in Ferguson were, to protest oppression that they themselves experience in their everyday lives?

  3. #33
    Veteran Member Double 0's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    The black man's name was Michael Brown and he was shot to death. Is it okay to have a powerful white guy represent minorities and act like a white savior to protect the people of Kentville who were gathering to celebrate Superman and not, as the people in Ferguson were, to protest oppression that they themselves experience in their everyday lives?
    Actually there's been a slew of black people either beaten or shot to death that got public attention. It could have been Garner, Brown, Freddie Grey, etc.

    You bring up a great point on the "white savior" aspect, but that's why it was the people themselves (namely Dante) that really fought back, more so than Superman. Superman was the catalyst sure, but what I liked is that it's not just Superman this time.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." DeRay Mckesson

  4. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    England :)
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    The arc called "Truth" seems like it'll be done in 4 issues but the actual setting and events in the arc will more than likely live on and be the stage for new stories going forward
    With the Truth storyline running through 4 titles, each (as far as I can tell) telling it from a different time point, it will be interesting to see if, when Truth is done, these titles (for want of a better phrase) stop doing that.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member misslane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Double 0 View Post
    Actually there's been a slew of black people either beaten or shot to death that got public attention. It could have been Garner, Brown, Freddie Grey, etc.
    True, but it was Michael Brown in Ferguson that was the biggest inciting incident with scenes from Ferguson most resembling the scene Pak set in this issue.

    You bring up a great point on the "white savior" aspect, but that's why it was the people themselves (namely Dante) that really fought back, more so than Superman. Superman was the catalyst sure, but what I liked is that it's not just Superman this time.
    Superman was still the savior at the end of it, wasn't he?

  6. #36
    Veteran Member Double 0's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    True, but it was Michael Brown in Ferguson that was the biggest inciting incident with scenes from Ferguson most resembling the scene Pak set in this issue.
    Or Baltimore, but either way you're right.

    Superman was still the savior at the end of it, wasn't he?
    Funny enough, he's probably the one that made it worse, judging by that awesome last panel.
    "Race is a social construct, they say. And I remind them that money is a social construct, too. Social constructs have power." DeRay Mckesson

  7. #37
    Always Rakzo
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Peru
    Posts
    3,928

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Do you remember what Superman was BEFORE New52? IMHO, it's one of the best Superman since Byrne. Maybe since Maggin.
    Hell, anything BEFORE Pak is nothing worth checking out in comparison.

  8. #38
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Damn man, everyone give it up on time for Pak and Kuder!!!! Like are you kidding me with how great this issue was?!!!

    Love the bit of social commentary with the people and Superman. It reminds me of "hands up, don't shoot" more than anything. But I think it is less focused on one incident in particular to parallel, but rather I think it's just a statement about abusing the powers you are given. Superman the former "top cop" knows power all too well. All throughout Pak's run he has explored the idea of how much is enough and how to do what's right with that power. Then when these cops (most of them) it's a twisted version of part of what Pak has been getting at with Superman. What I really appreciated was the humanization of some of the cops. In the end we're all just people and some of us are jerks and others are not.

    I also really LOVED Clark's entrance where he come in like cowboy straight out of a western and says one of my new favorite lines ever: "All right. Listen up. I'm calling in my chips". Classic. Then he does something unexpected. He doesn't go in gun blazing to beat up the "bad guys". No. He makes a point to express that he's for everyone. He fights for every single person. His recounting of each all of the peoples names and how he helped them was just spot on and powerful stuff. He not a badge or a symbol. He's just a guy trying to help his fellow man, and that really hit home in this issue.

    I really want Pak and Kuder to be proud of this issue. They've done wonderful work here. The use of characters outside of Superman was just perfect. I feel like I could read "Superman and Kentville" stories forever now. All of the different body types, races, and walks of life all coming in under the banner of Superman. Lee, Jim, Dante, and all of the people are just great.

    IN PAK WE TRUST

  9. #39
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misslane View Post
    The black man's name was Michael Brown and he was shot to death. Is it okay to have a powerful white guy represent minorities and act like a white savior to protect the people of Kentville who were gathering to celebrate Superman and not, as the people in Ferguson were, to protest oppression that they themselves experience in their everyday lives?
    There was at least another guy and he was beaten to death.
    Also, there's many ways to be a minority, including some that would make you white (being a Jew, for instance). And you can symbolize minorities without being one in the traditionnal sense yourself (for instance, the X Men are traditionnaly considered a metaphore for homosexuals, despite most of them actually being straight). In the narrative we are given, Superman is a metaphore for the immigrant and the minority by virtue of being an alien. In that regard, the accusation of him being a "mighty whitey" strikes me as being devoid of meaning. He may be technically white (and many minorities are white) but he's not a WASP by any mean.
    And why they were gathering isn't important. The cops were about to crush them and Superman came there to stood by them, not save the day for them.
    Last edited by Auguste Dupin; 07-01-2015 at 11:13 AM.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  10. #40
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    And why they were gathering isn't important. The cops were about to crush them and Superman came there to stood by them, not save the day for them.
    Yeah by the end Clark is just another person in the crowd that can't take the in justice any more. By the end he's no different from my good buddy Dante.

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member hellacre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,776

    Default

    This was very good issue. Full of tension and drama and intense art and very topical and it can open some wounds because of the parallels to today's America and because of that I am really wondering where they might be going re the status quo in the future. Because what they are doing I feel would be undermined if they suddenly retconed all this with something really trite to just go back to the old status quo of the secret ID and him back working at the DP as if nothing happened and he just wins over folks in a few arcs. The battle of equity/ equality/ freedom of expression etc has been one of decades, with different ideas in dealing with repression and what might be considered heroism. Clark is not only standing up with the people...but they are using him to represent the focus of the prejudice and xenophobia that still pervades society....and he no longer has the privilege of Clark Kent...I am really interested to see how they handle this long term. The real story is after the ID is outed. Not really who and why he was outed. It's how he and the community as a whole deal with it including Lee, Dante and the cops etc.

  12. #42
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Yeah by the end Clark is just another person in the crowd that can't take the in justice any more. By the end he's no different from my good buddy Dante.
    Pretty much, yes. The big difference with Dante is that he tried to pull of his own awesome brand of passive resistance before they start attacking the rest of Kentville.
    I mean, the whole part with the chains, man. Or when they start beating him up. I was feeling each blow. And he just stood there, taking it all, holding the chain. It's like that scene from Superman Returns, except made good.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

  13. #43
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Banner View Post
    I am part of this group.
    I am too. The books had lost their way and that whole grounded arc was the final nail in the coffin. Things are SOOOOO much better now!

  14. #44
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post
    Pretty much, yes. The big difference with Dante is that he tried to pull of his own awesome brand of passive resistance before they start attacking the rest of Kentville.
    I mean, the whole part with the chains, man. Or when they start beating him up. I was feeling each blow. And he just stood there, taking it all, holding the chain. It's like that scene from Superman Returns, except made good.
    True!!! I swear it almost felt like this was an independent comic. Like I forgot Superman was even in the comic and I was just captivated by Lee's cool head worry for her block, and Dante's radical passive resistance. I was captivated by just see them for an extend period of time in this situation, and to me that's a amazing considering the main draw for a superhero book is well the superhero (Superman no less!!!)

    It made it all the sweeter when we see the bit of supernatural get infused into the situation with the giant dock working chain being thrown across the street. It was really like a "Superman's here" moment that was earned. Then after that Pak and Kuder almost marry that independent comic feel with the superhero feel to produce that power as hell scene with him getting beat on that you talked about.

    Loved it all.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 07-01-2015 at 12:28 PM.

  15. #45
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It made it all the sweeter when we see the bit of supernatural get infused into the situation with the giant dock working chain being through across the street. It was really like a "Superman's here" moment that was earned. Then after that Pak and Kuder almost marry that independent comic feel with the superhero feel to produce that power as hell scene with him getting beat on that you talked about.

    Loved it all.
    He needs to keep that chain. Seriously, he has it since less than an issue, and he's already doing cool stunts after cool stunts with it.
    Frankly, while I loved the first part of the issue very much, the entire second part of it was so much more intense. It was like, every time I felt like it had reached its climax, the moment right after it topped it. By the last panel, I was so into it I was almost yelling at the characters.
    Hold those chains, Clark Kent
    Bear the weight on your shoulders
    Stand firm. Take the pain.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •