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  1. #121
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jon Clark;1339477]
    Quote Originally Posted by Auguste Dupin View Post

    Both Mizoguchi and Davidovich are however reluctantly going along with the plan. The story doesn't paint the sergeant as going a bit over the line, he is obviously in the wrong. This isn't a "Het someone in this crowd threw a brick at me and I thought the crowd was about to explode" situation. Unless these guys are incredibly dense they know what is happening is way beyond legal. The fact Davidovich doesn't take his tear gas gun and leave or that Mizoguchi isn't coming physically to Superman's defense makes them accomplices to what happens.

    And while this whole thing might not have official backing, but if not why isn't Lee's radio call getting ANY attention from someone with the authority to tell Binghamton to stand down? And why is Jim Gordon apparently under the impression that Superman slugged a cop, rather than Superman dealt with a psycho hiding behind a badge? Seems to me Metropolis PD must have backed Bingham enough that Gordon can believe that Superman is in the wrong here.
    Fun fact is, this is exactly what he ends up doing. He gets punched in the face for his trouble. But the thing is, he's been trying to argue with the Sergeant from the very beginning. So really, he's only "going along with it" in the sense that he was there (and frankly, what good would him leaving do, appart from getting him fired?). He's been trying to prevent the situation from happening since the moment we first see him. So "going along with the plan" nothing.
    Also, it's obvious that the Sergeant is looking for a reason to start acting against the riot. That's the whole point of him beating up Superman for instance. He's trying to antagonize him so he will fight back, giving him an excuse for charging in. It kinda does imply that he's somewhat worried of having to justify his actions to his superiors.
    Now, you could argue that it's stereotypical because such an excuse would never fly considering how he's pretty much antagonizing the riot, but franly, when a cop can shoot a black kid and not face legal repercutions, despite video shootage showing that the encounter with said black kid didn't happen the way he pretended it did, that really doesn't sound like much of an argument to me. Especially when the issue we're discussing is perceived as an analogy of the protests that happened because of it.
    As for Lee not getting a response....I don't know what copy you got, but in mine, the radio we hear Lee's call from gets smashed litterally the panel after she makes said call. So I have no idea how you can tell what kind of answer she got.
    Finally, you know what else you have in Batman/Superman 22? Superman stating that Binghamton wasn't just a cop and that Superman stood WITH the police in an undescribed event that presumably happened right after. Doesn't sound like something a writer with an anti cop agenda would write. Also, in Batman/Superman 21, you see Mizoguchi, and now he's a sergeant himself (when he was taking orders from one before). So my guess is that Gordon's partial understanding of the situation comes less from the MPD backing Binghamton, and more from it trying to keep the whole thing under wraps to avoid a bad rap, giving promotions to the officers who stood against the orders in the process (possibly in the hopes that it will keep them silent).
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  2. #122
    Mighty Member andersonh1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    This isn't anti-police. This is anti-corruption, in the form of one guy corrupting the bunch. If you'd read the story, you'd see that there are officers against what this one guy is orchestrating. Some are following this guy's orders yes, which is more than enough for trouble, but there are others who don't like it and are trying to stop it. And its funny you try and disparage it by using the term "disguised as a Superman story" when some of your most classic Superman tales have been inspired by using corruption in the powers of the day as a social commentary. My god that is a hallmark of the original Siegel and Shuster stories. I'd like to see you call the stories from the men who actually made this character "disguised" Superman stories. Fact of the matter is there is corruption in the police force (and no, admitting that is not being anti-police), its getting enhanced attention lately, and its entirely appropriate to reference relevant current events it in fiction.
    I have read the issue. I stand by my review. A second reading just made it a worse experience.

    Now, if future chapters can mitigate it somewhat, that's fine. Maybe they will, as Auguste Dupin suggests the story is hinting at.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Here's my take on it, and I say this as a police officer myself...

    I picked up on the anti-police message pretty quick. I don't have a problem with that per se - it's par for the course and I do believe corruption exists in some police agencies, as it exists in other parts of American governments or businesses.

    My problem with it here is that it places Superman firmly as picking one side, while simultaneously casting the Metropolis police department as thugs for no reason other than to convey the writer's political views. I mean, why would the police hate Superman so much that they would beat him for no real reason other than the fact that some Sergeant (who also receives no real backstory or explanation) tells them to?

    Let me tell you something - I've worked with DOZENS of officers of all races, ages, both genders, both sexual orientations, etc. Does racism and prejudices exist in law enforcement? Absolutely. Has any officer I ever met or worked with went on duty with the mindset or intent of wanting to beat or kill someone? NEVER, even with dealing with a person they don't like or otherwise have a prejudice against. That officer would have a pretty short career (if not life) in whatever agency he/she worked for.

    So while I'm fine with Pak using real-life events to portray police corruption and Superman standing against it, do it in a realistic and fair way. Don't give us some mustache-twirling villain as the face of police corruption.
    EXACTLY. Attacking the integrity of police is in vogue right now, and Pak is jumping on the bandwagon.
    Last edited by andersonh1; 07-09-2015 at 06:12 PM.
    "Why do the trunks not "hold up with the times"? What exactly is the problem with them? And don't tell me "nobody wears them" because nobody dresses in a blue body suit and red cape and boots either.

    It's a superhero costume. It's the original superhero costume. It's not real clothing, it's not bound to the ever-changing fashion trends of real life. It's nothing like real life clothing. How exactly can it become outdated?"

  3. #123
    Spectacular Member oldschoolfan's Avatar
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    Default Read it ALL over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by andersonh1 View Post
    I have read the issue. I stand by my review. A second reading just made it a worse experience.

    Now, if future chapters can mitigate it somewhat, that's fine. Maybe they will, as Auguste Dupin suggests the story is hinting at.



    EXACTLY. Attacking the integrity of police is in vogue right now, and Pak is jumping on the bandwagon.
    Did you reread Action #41 also? Because I went back and read the preview, Action 41 and 42 and I am coming away with a completely different take.

    The officer in change isn't what he appears to be....you get that from the get go in issue 41. Someone else is manipulating events to make Superman look bad....the Police are being used. I don't take it as anti cop, and I would even venture to say that the parallels between current events and this story are there because the Superman team(Pak included) asked a simple question, "What if Clark Kent was outed as Superman? Would every one be okay with it?" And now they are just letting the answer play out.

    Action is simply the story of the community around Superman supporting him and some unknown power manipulating things so that he can get revenge and if the community is in the way, so be it. This isn't about the Police per se.....if you want that story read Batman Year One by Miller and Mazziceilli

  4. #124
    Incredible Member megaharrison's Avatar
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    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.
    You clearly didn't read the story man.
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  6. #126
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.
    Did you actually READ the issue, or just going on heresay?

  7. #127
    Spadassin Extraordinaire Auguste Dupin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.
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  8. #128
    Spectacular Member oldschoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.
    It would be disgusting if it were true. I assume that you are sincere in your opinion because you took the time to post, as opposed to someone who just wants to see people spin their fan wheels unnecessarily.

    I actually believe that Greg Pak should be nominated for an Eisner award for his work in this particular issue, you should read it. If you don't like it, fine. But you might like it, and you might see what I am talking about. The cops are not cartoonish, one of them is probably evil, but every thing else is the extention of asking a real simple question, "What if the world knew Clark was Superman?" Now, each of the writers are focusing on the issues surrounding that, and they are doing a great job of coming up with some interesting observations. It doesn't just complicate Clark's life. It complicates the lives of the people in his neighbor hood. That is what Greg Pak is focusing on. And there is some great characterization going on throughout the issue.

    I encourage you to read the books starting with the preview that was in the back of Convergence:Superboy#2, Action #41, and Action #42. Post again, even if you don't like it. I am here to talk comics.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldschoolfan View Post
    It would be disgusting if it were true. I assume that you are sincere in your opinion because you took the time to post, as opposed to someone who just wants to see people spin their fan wheels unnecessarily.

    I actually believe that Greg Pak should be nominated for an Eisner award for his work in this particular issue, you should read it. If you don't like it, fine. But you might like it, and you might see what I am talking about. The cops are not cartoonish, one of them is probably evil, but every thing else is the extention of asking a real simple question, "What if the world knew Clark was Superman?" Now, each of the writers are focusing on the issues surrounding that, and they are doing a great job of coming up with some interesting observations. It doesn't just complicate Clark's life. It complicates the lives of the people in his neighbor hood. That is what Greg Pak is focusing on. And there is some great characterization going on throughout the issue.

    I encourage you to read the books starting with the preview that was in the back of Convergence:Superboy#2, Action #41, and Action #42. Post again, even if you don't like it. I am here to talk comics.
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  10. #130
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Seven pages and I havent posted yet. Shame on me.

    In Pak We Trust. That's all I have to say. Damned fine comic book. After the last issue I was afraid that the police department as a whole was going to be treated with a kind of two dimensionality to it, much as our main antagonist the Sgt. has been (pure T-1000 stuff there, he's a cipher and I find it quite fitting given the dynamics) but they're being written with nuance and forethought. These cops arent bad people or evil (well, some of them perhaps) but they're swept up in a corrupt superior's fight, and he himself is clearly working for someone other than the MPD. My wife's family are cops, she studies criminal justice, Im not on the anti-cop bandwagon, and this was not anti-cop. It was topical and dealt with parallels to real world events, but these cops are victims too, and I find that an intriguing aspect and look forward to seeing things develop.

    Clark and the chain? Dante and the protest? Hot damn. I'll just short hand it and say that to no one's surprise, I essentially agree with Superlad, Auguste, Myskin, and the rest of the usual suspects.

    Damned fine comic.
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  11. #131
    Junior Member Blue Light's Avatar
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    I loved this. So. Much.

    Also, with all the new Superman solicits for October, the BvS trailer and Justice League: Gods and Men, geez, I go away for a bit and everything frigging explodes... in an awesome way
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by megaharrison View Post
    So I hear Superman is beating up cartoonishly evil cops to defend "black neighborhoods" these days. The political pandering and smear campaign here is really disgusting.
    Catchphrases are the death of intelligence, and they echo long after they've claimed their victim.....


    Leaving aside you're being wrong about a comic you haven't read, who exactly is being "smeared" - and in what way is it a "campaign"?

  13. #133
    Incredible Member Naked Bat's Avatar
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    I like truth so far, especially action and batman/wonder-woman.

    I don't see any anti cop agenda in this issue. I think it's interesting that Supes is really actiong like superman in action. He's not in batman/superman though, where he basically says "now that i'm not invulnerable anymore, I can't trust people like before".

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