Azarath's Empath RAVEN Appreciation!

[orionblue]

I had an idea that DC should do an team book with Raven, Jinx and Solstice. Jinx and Solstice are Indian, and Raven (at least during her New Teen Titans days) would always dress in Indian attire during her down time. That and the chakra and the way her room looked, I got the feeling Perez and Wolfman wanted to make Raven Indian, but didn't.







Jinx could be the tough one, Raven the empath and Solstice the chipper one, on their many adventures and misadventures.

This would be an interesting book, I think, depending who writes it and draws it. The Jinx character being redeemed would flesh her character out a bit more and make her even more interesting, imo.

[Outside_85]

I had an idea that DC should do an team book with Raven, Jinx and Solstice. Jinx and Solstice are Indian, and Raven (at least during her New Teen Titans days) would always dress in Indian attire during her down time. That and the chakra and the way her room looked, I got the feeling Perez and Wolfman wanted to make Raven Indian, but didn't.

If I'm honest, I don't think Wolfman/Perez was trying to make, or had any thought of making Raven Indian, the things you see in her room was basically just what you'd expect of a highly spiritual individual (like how many movies have you seen where people of various races and nationalities burn incense sticks?). As for the chakra and they way she dressed initially, I'd assume this was more left over comforts she brought with her from Azarath where everyone wore it.

After all, you have to remember that Raven had by the time she met the other Titans, never set foot in India. Neither had her mother in any of the origins we've seen. Not to mention in NTT: Games the various members of the team and their families that could be targeted with it were threatened with being deported out of the US, which they couldn't threaten Arella with.

As for the idea of the team-up... I'll be honest, the comic Jinx is to me not very interesting when compared to the very different animated version. But had JT Krul run on Teen Titans been allowed to continue, I really would have liked somekind of team-up story between Solstice and Raven the same way Damian had with Ravager where the pair could work out their differences, and we could find out why Solstice had such a negative effect on Raven.

[orionblue]

Anyone heard any more news or rumors on the Wolfman Raven mini?

[Doctor Know]

This would be an interesting book, I think, depending who writes it and draws it. The Jinx character being redeemed would flesh her character out a bit more and make her even more interesting, imo.

Yeah, Jinx could use a reboot/makeover. Her powers have a lot of potential, but like Tala, she's been forgotten about. The main mistresses of magic in DC are Zatanna and Enchantress.

If I'm honest, I don't think Wolfman/Perez was trying to make, or had any thought of making Raven Indian, the things you see in her room was basically just what you'd expect of a highly spiritual individual (like how many movies have you seen where people of various races and nationalities burn incense sticks?). As for the chakra and they way she dressed initially, I'd assume this was more left over comforts she brought with her from Azarath where everyone wore it.

After all, you have to remember that Raven had by the time she met the other Titans, never set foot in India. Neither had her mother in any of the origins we've seen. Not to mention in NTT: Games the various members of the team and their families that could be targeted with it were threatened with being deported out of the US, which they couldn't threaten Arella with.

Oh, I know Raven isn't Indian. My idea came about thinking how cool it would be if there was a Raven and Solstice series. Since one's powers are darkness and the other's is light. Then I remembered Jinx and I figured she'd be a nice addition.

See the thing with Raven during the NTT era, is that her style of dress and her room are definitely inspired by Indian culture. That was 1980. Today though, Raven would be accused of cultural appropriation. You can sidestep the issue by giving Raven a tie to India, in some way. The same way that Wolverine has ties to Japan. He's been and lived there several times, learned the culture, and adopts the bushido code into his life. It wouldn't be hard to do, since Raven was raised on Azrath, and Azarath is occupied with people from Earth. Raven's mother wasn't allowed to raise her, if you recall. It could work, with the right frame and set up. Neither the New 52 or 2K3 Raven would be viable for this hypothetical project.


Defintely not 2K3 version, for obvious reasons.



Lipstick, midriff tank tops, tramp stamps and thongs, are TOTALLY things Raven would wear.

Because:


X(

As for the idea of the team-up... I'll be honest, the comic Jinx is to me not very interesting when compared to the very different animated version. But had JT Krul run on Teen Titans been allowed to continue, I really would have liked somekind of team-up story between Solstice and Raven the same way Damian had with Ravager where the pair could work out their differences, and we could find out why Solstice had such a negative effect on Raven.

Jinx could work if she got a reboot/makeover. Like I said above, the character hasn't been utilized constructively for years; maybe even decades at this point. If I was in a position to make my ideas reality, I think I could make it work.

[Outside_85]

See the thing with Raven during the NTT era, is that her style of dress and her room are definitely inspired by Indian culture. That was 1980. Today though, Raven would be accused of cultural appropriation. You can sidestep the issue by giving Raven a tie to India, in some way. The same way that Wolverine has ties to Japan. He's been and lived there several times, learned the culture, and adopts the bushido code into his life. It wouldn't be hard to do, since Raven was raised on Azrath, and Azarath is occupied with people from Earth. Raven's mother wasn't allowed to raise her, if you recall. It could work, with the right frame and set up. Neither the New 52 or 2K3 Raven would be viable for this hypothetical project.

Jinx could work if she got a reboot/makeover. Like I said above, the character hasn't been utilized constructively for years; maybe even decades at this point. If I was in a position to make my ideas reality, I think I could make it work.

The bold part is whats wrong with it. In 1980 Marv and George were jumping onto the existing trend of Eastern Spiritualism and it all looked rather good for their own mystic that Marv had been challenges to make different than Dr. Strange Phantom Stranger, both very western-based characters.
The problem however lies in that in the comics, Azerath was founded around 1000 years ago (going by the ages of Azar's, the two first reached 400 years of age, the one Raven trained under only reached 200.). Back then Azar (which is Spanish) would have gathered her followers, mostly from western Europe by the looks of them, and then left Earth behind. India was a place so far a way back then that most people in Europe didn't think it existed, so I highly doubt Azar made that journey, and I doubt she sought inspiration after leaving Earth... which would seem odd for the head of a major religious movement.
But looking away from Azerath, Raven could simply have developed a taste for the trappings of Hinduism/Buddism in an un-defined frame of time when she explored Earth while looking for potential members for the Titans.

Well, if I could sell mine, it would be revealed that there were gods involved in the founding of Azerath.

[Doctor Know]

The problem however lies in that in the comics, Azerath was founded around 1000 years ago (going by the ages of Azar's, the two first reached 400 years of age, the one Raven trained under only reached 200.). Back then Azar (which is Spanish) would have gathered her followers, mostly from western Europe by the looks of them, and then left Earth behind. India was a place so far a way back then that most people in Europe didn't think it existed, so I highly doubt Azar made that journey, and I doubt she sought inspiration after leaving Earth... which would seem odd for the head of a major religious movement.
But looking away from Azerath, Raven could simply have developed a taste for the trappings of Hinduism/Buddism in an un-defined frame of time when she explored Earth while looking for potential members for the Titans.

Well, if I could sell mine, it would be revealed that there were gods involved in the founding of Azerath.

^ That could work.

Since Azarath is a magical dimension, you can make up your own rules for it. I'd give it a backstory like Gemworld. An alternate dimension that people of Earth occupy. Right now, they aren't too dissimilar. Except Azarathians practice magic for non-violent purposes only, and Azarathians plan to combat Trigon one day.

[John Venus]

Does cultural appropriate even apply if you are a being from another dimension and thus free from the long and tangled legacy of colonialism in our world?

[Doctor Know]

Does cultural appropriate even apply if you are a being from another dimension and thus free from the long and tangled legacy of colonialism in our world?

In a sense yes, because it's the author, artist and editor who sign off on and craft a character with certain traits and attributes. Back in the 80's (when Raven was created) no one would've said anything or even cared. But now, people find things like that racially insensitive. Raven's attire would be criticized for being a costume of someone else's culture, rather than an extension of who she is. Like Japonphiles who wear traditional Japanese clothing, and decorate their house with Japanese objects but don't know anything about Japan, except what they've seen on TV. Or women who wear bindis, Chinese dresses or hairstyles from other cultures, etc.

In-universe, no body would say anything or care. Out-of-universe however you can't anticipate that consumers would empathize or condone Raven seemingly wearing Indian dresses, robes, head scarfs, and having Hindu figurines in her room and her not have a connection to India in some way.

The easiest sidestep to this is just have the person who raised Raven on Azarath be Indian herself. Azarath was a person, and she was responsible for raising Raven. Not Raven's mother Arella.


I find that quite preferable to "Valley Girl" Raven of the 2K3 version.

[Outside_85]

The easiest sidestep to this is just have the person who raised Raven on Azarath be Indian herself. Azar was a person, and she was responsible for raising Raven. Not Raven's mother Arella.

You'd still have to consider explaining why Azar (spanish for chance) is called as she is.

[Doctor Know]

You'd still have to consider explaining why Azar (spanish for chance) is called as she is.

Azar also means fire or red, in Persian.

UGH, guess you can't win for losing. Oh well, no big deal.

[Outside_85]

Azar also means fire or red, in Persian.

UGH, guess you can't win for losing. Oh well, no big deal.

Well, that is ofc true... and I have to admit that no one 'has' to explain the origns of her name and all that... it's just been part of my head canon for some time now.

Like Azar appears as a young girl or woman at a monestary, perhaps found washed up on the shores in or near Spain, no memory of who she is. The nuns name her Azar because of how they found her. She grows up and recieves the vision that sets her on the path to gather followers and eventually found Azerath in anticipation of Raven's eventual birth and Trigon's coming.

[AriesWarlock]

I say the Titans are making a big mistake trusting her in the recent comics, but we'll see.

I liked very much her costume in Injustice comics/game.

Lipstick, midriff tank tops, tramp stamps and thongs, are TOTALLY things Raven would wear.

The best Raven.

[Robotman]

Anyone heard any more news or rumors on the Wolfman Raven mini?

i got a chance to talk to Marv Wolfman last weekend at the Long Beach Comic Con. i asked if Raven was going to get her old costume back but he wouldn't reveal anything. it's due out in 2016 and we'd find out then is all he said about it.

[orionblue]

i got a chance to talk to Marv Wolfman last weekend at the Long Beach Comic Con. i asked if Raven was going to get her old costume back but he wouldn't reveal anything. it's due out in 2016 and we'd find out then is all he said about it.

Thanks for the update! I hope she gets her iconic Pérez-era costume back (fingers-crossed!!!)

[Thirteen]

Thanks for the update! I hope she gets her iconic Pérez-era costume back (fingers-crossed!!!)

I bet she gets pants/leggings added to the look.

I wouldn't mind something along the lines of this design by Deviant Art-er tsbranch
http://tsbranch.deviantart.com