Page 46 of 46 FirstFirst ... 364243444546
Results 676 to 689 of 689
  1. #676
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,994

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    Your first paragraph about Molecule man was well written btw, a better explanation to what is happening than what Hickman actually wrote.

    But with the future thing, that is something to wonder about. The idea was what? 25 years in the future from when Molecule man got his powers all realities would collapse but futures exist which are further ahead, even in the view issues before Secret Wars, we still had time travel into the future, what were they travelling into the future of?

    The best and only explalantion is that Secret Wars happened in all of the pasts of those futures, in those futures and they were all reset and everything back to either a-okay or dismal futures what could happen. Or Molecule Man wasn't there to explode, which means Beyonder's experiment was not a very good one.

    It's not anyway, according to the story there was a Molecule man in every reality. Which includes ours... where is he?
    The Marvel Multiverse has had an analogue to the real world in Earth-1218 for a while now, but since none of the events presented as happening there with Marvel characters visiting have ever happened in real life, that's all it is, an analogue. Especially now that it's been destroyed according to Secret Wars, what with 616 and 1610 being the last two in the multiverse, obviously 1218 got kacked earlier.

    As for the futures past Molecule Man inception +25... unclear, except that each and every one must have had a history explaining how that universe was in existence at the future date, whether that involves avoiding the Incursions and Molecule Men bombs entirely, being destroyed and then recreated (with time travelers jumping over Secret Wars none the wiser), or what have you. A universe can't exist with a history saying that it no longer exists, barring the bizarre 'remnant' futures seen in Guardians 3K recently.
    Last edited by vitruvian; 07-10-2015 at 11:07 AM.

  2. #677
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,994

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Braun Rodman View Post
    I think that this in an example of hyper-space time. the universe is collapsing on a dimensional level above 3D reality so it is collapsing at ALL time at the SAME time. meaning in each individual reality there is past/present/future to entropy, but dimensionally they are all breaing donw on a higher plane of existence--hence why time travel is still possible during this whole thing. Morrison's time is a flat cricle in the Invisibles is another example as is Milton's war in heaven in Paradise Lost (tho it predates the theory by many years lol) where the Fall is told in revelations but happens before and during man's time on earth.
    Nope. Even once a universe has been destroyed by an Incursion, it is still possible to go into the past of that universe using time travel, so its past has not been destroyed in that sense. We know this because Doom did so.

  3. #678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Nope. Even once a universe has been destroyed by an Incursion, it is still possible to go into the past of that universe using time travel, so its past has not been destroyed in that sense. We know this because Doom did so.
    not to be blunt. But this shows an obvious misunderstanding of what I said because your repsonse is in agreement with the theory as time travel is unaffected on the 3 dimensional plane...
    Last edited by Braun Rodman; 07-10-2015 at 12:00 PM.

  4. #679
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,994

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Braun Rodman View Post
    not to be blunt. But this shows an obvious misunderstanding of what I said because your repsonse is in agreement with the theory
    Okay. The only other way I can interpret your original statement is that if that's the case, then time travel to all the futures of these universes remains possible as well, so from the perspective of persons in any of those futures, it's as though there is no destruction of the universe at all, and none of the Kangs should have been worried about anything at all. Secret Wars and the replacement of the multiverse by Battleworld is a mere blip, with no effects on anybody living at any other time in history, past or future.

  5. #680

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Okay. The only other way I can interpret your original statement is that if that's the case, then time travel to all the futures of these universes remains possible as well, so from the perspective of persons in any of those futures, it's as though there is no destruction of the universe at all, and none of the Kangs should have been worried about anything at all. Secret Wars and the replacement of the multiverse by Battleworld is a mere blip, with no effects on anybody living at any other time in history, past or future.
    no thats not it at all. the extinction event is happening in all dimensions. Like the Beyonders are beyond 3D beings.

    an example of this is when Pym sees the Living Tribunal killed. this occured after his body is found because he has breached the dimensional wall. I'm assuming the other cosmic entities had similar fates. After LT was killed he feel into the 3rd dimension of all the realities of the multiverse.

    the beyonders are collapsing all time and space. In our reality this manifests as the incursions. Doom saw this and traveled back in time to usurp the beyonders power in the 3D, remember he could not stop the outcome, he could merely direct it and when facing the beyonders in the void, steal it.

    (I wish I could give a more involved answer but I'm at work... )

  6. #681
    Astonishing Member vitruvian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,994

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Braun Rodman View Post
    no thats not it at all. the extinction event is happening in all dimensions. Like the Beyonders are beyond 3D beings.

    an example of this is when Pym sees the Living Tribunal killed. this occured after his body is found because he has breached the dimensional wall. I'm assuming the other cosmic entities had similar fates. After LT was killed he feel into the 3rd dimension of all the realities of the multiverse.

    the beyonders are collapsing all time and space. In our reality this manifests as the incursions. Doom saw this and traveled back in time to usurp the beyonders power in the 3D, remember he could not stop the outcome, he could merely direct it and when facing the beyonders in the void, steal it.
    If you can time travel to the past even once the universe has been destroyed, which Doom proved you can do, and you say it's the same for the future because all space-time is one, then I don't see how it matters to people in the future or the past. If time travelers can go to the future, then the universe of the future is still there and they're living there like the universe was never destroyed, just as the folks in the past are living out their lives like the universe never will be destroyed.

    And Doom did change the outcome... the Molecule Men did not go off. Doom caused the Incursions by assassinating the Molecule Men, they were not the Beyonders' doing.

    Think I'll repeat that... according to the story as published, the Beyonders did not cause the Incursions, Doom did.

  7. #682

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    If you can time travel to the past even once the universe has been destroyed, which Doom proved you can do, and you say it's the same for the future because all space-time is one, then I don't see how it matters to people in the future or the past. If time travelers can go to the future, then the universe of the future is still there and they're living there like the universe was never destroyed, just as the folks in the past are living out their lives like the universe never will be destroyed.

    And Doom did change the outcome... the Molecule Men did not go off. Doom caused the Incursions by assassinating the Molecule Men, they were not the Beyonders' doing.

    Think I'll repeat that... according to the story as published, the Beyonders did not cause the Incursions, Doom did.
    sorry that was a mis-type. I meant that there was no way to stop the collapse on a largger than 3D level. So Doom too it upon himself to start it usurping the beyonders plan. Time and space were ending regardless of what Doom was going to do. HIs moral ambiguity allowed for him to be a part of it...if not the cause.

    I think you are struggling with the dimensional talk is what I am gettting out of this, true?

    If you can time travel to the past even once the universe has been destroyed, which Doom proved you can do, and you say it's the same for the future because all space-time is one, then I don't see how it matters to people in the future or the past. If time travelers can go to the future, then the universe of the future is still there and they're living there like the universe was never destroyed, just as the folks in the past are living out their lives like the universe never will be destroyed. <------yes because all 3D time happens at the same time from a higher Dim, this is beyond linear conception
    Last edited by Braun Rodman; 07-10-2015 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #683
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,606

    Default

    Vitruvian

    As regards to letting the many die to save the few, it was the image that a whole planet full of people died, but the Illuminati saved themselves. I can understand the imagery of the Ark to save the few from the deluge, but after all the Illuminati tried to do, they only succeeded in saving a little remnant of themselves, and to what end? Possibly lie adrift, in suspended animation, indefinately in a white space where a universe was? It was the last clawing of desperate men, at the cliff before going over the edge. They had no idea where they would end up.

    And as to who Manifolds powers chose to put in the Raft, that seemed preferential to super humans. Scientist Parker, idiot Starlord, Soldier Carol Danvers, dying Doctor Thor. They weren't necessarily ideal choices, to my mind.

  9. #684
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vitruvian View Post
    Thing is, the rest of all those universes died except for the small bits Doom was able to save from the Incursion points. So, by virtue of his actions having caused the Incursions, Doom didn't just let worlds die, he caused them to die. True, eventually the Molecule Men time bombs set by the Beyonders would have done so as well, without an opportunity to save anything (we think, since after all who knows if the same technique Doom used to preserve fragments of worlds couldn't have been used without Incursions happening), but not for about another 11-12 years, based on Molecule Man appearing in the early days of Marvel and the sliding timeline only going 13-14 years so far. Plenty of time to figure out a different solution to that problem, had the multiversal collapse of the Incursions not been breathing down everyone's neck.
    If the Illuminati still existed 11-12 years from now, the first Incursion could still have gone the same way it did in NA #1, with the Black Swan dropping to Earth and someone noticing and capturing her for the Illuminati to deal with the situation they had to face. The same sequence could still have happened with Namor pulling the trigger and going to Doom when the Cabal became a problem. Doom could still have tracked down the Molecule Man and killed MM all over the Multiverse to start incursions earlier like happened in NA #33, and still formed Battleworld as the two rafts ended up on the Planet. Same ending as this Secret Wars, I suppose?

  10. #685
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    Your first paragraph about Molecule man was well written btw, a better explanation to what is happening than what Hickman actually wrote.

    But with the future thing, that is something to wonder about. The idea was what? 25 years in the future from when Molecule man got his powers all realities would collapse but futures exist which are further ahead, even in the view issues before Secret Wars, we still had time travel into the future, what were they travelling into the future of?

    The best and only explalantion is that Secret Wars happened in all of the pasts of those futures, in those futures and they were all reset and everything back to either a-okay or dismal futures what could happen. Or Molecule Man wasn't there to explode, which means Beyonder's experiment was not a very good one.

    It's not anyway, according to the story there was a Molecule man in every reality. Which includes ours... where is he?
    Our MM was Owen Reece

    The futures before Secret Wars could be defunct now, one possibility. But the other possibility is, the futures were always going to be there because Secret Wars was always going to preserve some Universes, so futures were never really destroyed in the first place?.

  11. #686
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,606

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    I don't mean 616, I mean our Owen Reece? http://marvel.wikia.com/Earth-1218
    Why are you interested in the real worlds Molecule Man? Earth-1218 was real, and the comics were fictional, so Earth-1218 didn't have a fictional comic character as a real being.

  12. #687
    Newbie Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4

    Default

    How do you all think this compares to Hickman's Ultimates run? The Ultimates is still one of my all time favorites, and the fact that both Secret Wars and Ultimates were drawn by Esad makes them easy to compare. At this point I think Secret Wars is surpassing Ultimates, probably because I have so much invested in the story from reading Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers runs. Secret Wars is the best comic I have read in a long time, and I am so excited to see where it will go from here.

  13. #688
    Mighty Member marvelprince's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raw View Post
    How do you all think this compares to Hickman's Ultimates run? The Ultimates is still one of my all time favorites, and the fact that both Secret Wars and Ultimates were drawn by Esad makes them easy to compare. At this point I think Secret Wars is surpassing Ultimates, probably because I have so much invested in the story from reading Hickman's Avengers and New Avengers runs. Secret Wars is the best comic I have read in a long time, and I am so excited to see where it will go from here.
    Well the scope of Secret Wars is just so huuuuuuuuge, but I've been treating Hickman's Ultimates as a pre-prelude since he's carried over the maker into here.

  14. #689
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,606

    Default

    I actually don't know if Doctor Strange scattered the Raftees to Domains in the there and now, or, like Star Lord, sent them back in time, because I am struggling to identify 616 people in the Tie-ins. For example, the Tony Stark in 1872 could be 616, cynical that he can't use high tech anymore and stays drunk, or, he died by the Regent in Renew Your Vows. Any one of the 616 Raftees could be themselves in a host of books, and may not reveal they are 616, for fear of what Doom might do.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •