Secret Wars #4 spoiler

[Narasinha]

But why is it a bird form? That was always the thing that needled me about the PF.

It was explained somewhere that the "bird" form is just a kind of avatar that the PF created for itself because it liked it. It's the manifestation of the PF in our universe.

[Biclopcicle]

I think there's a panel a lot of people have overlooked.

Attachment 24170

This one. Strange was talking to T'Challa about the things he had seen and never revealed. Pretty sure he just did a knowledge transfer to T'Challa, because he KNEW he was screwed for saving them.


To me, that's way more important than whether or not the Phoenix is alive or not (since it's already know that it pales in comparison to God Doom as of right now).

Absolutely. I think your explanation is probably the best one thus far. Because he didn't blank anyone's memory (he fully expected Richards to plot against Doom). Maybe he sent Tchalla back to Agamotto

[Habis]

You do know that Cyclops have already been confirmed to be in Uncanny Inhumans right?

They may bring another version of him to the new main universe. Or the teen version may take the condom suit.

Seriously, I'm going to have trouble taking Cyclops seriously as a hero anymore. He takes the Phoenix Force and he suddenly is speaking like a crazy mutant supremacist. And it wasn't part of any plot point or anything, they just wanted to make him die like a villain.

I'm still not sure Cyclops death and even though this happened the Phoenix still there and I'm sure it will have a key role in this story.

You can not kill an idea.

Sadly, his idea at the time of his death was "We mutants are superior, we will take this planet for ourselves. Or maybe burn it to create something better...".

No matter how fan of Cyclops you are, you have to see that the intention of the writer was clear: He wanted him to die as a megalomaniac, not as a hero. Whoever had the idea to include him among the survivors of the Life Raft hates Cyclops and did it only so he could give him a pathetic, undignified death.

Just see the difference between Cyclops's and Strange's deaths. Strange died like a hero, saving his friends. Cyclops died repeating some of Magneto's old slogans.

[Narasinha]

Omnipotent is all-powerful. Omni (all) + potens (able) = able to do all.

Sorry, I mean omniscient. Was in a hurry. But anyway, he isn't omnipotent either else he could have recreated the whole universe instead of just piecing together Battleworld...

[Aaric Rivad]

I think there's a panel a lot of people have overlooked.

Attachment 24170

This one. Strange was talking to T'Challa about the things he had seen and never revealed. Pretty sure he just did a knowledge transfer to T'Challa, because he KNEW he was screwed for saving them.


To me, that's way more important than whether or not the Phoenix is alive or not (since it's already known it pales in comparison to God Doom as of right now).

Nailed it.

The Phoenix is inconsequential. It's pretty much settled that Doom operates on a level far beyond the supposed "embodiment of life itself." I'm inclined to agree with the person who said that the PF was only brought along to give Strange a momentary distraction to make his move.

This is gonna be settled in the trenches, by the little people, and it's sacrifices like Dr. Strange's that will make the difference.

[ian0delond]

Sorry, I mean omniscient. Was in a hurry. But anyway, he isn't omnipotent either else he could have recreated the whole universe instead of just piecing together Battleworld...

It is what happened with the first Secret Wars. And it is not a really good ending to just go at some point "hey I am just going to rebuild the universe. YOLO. The End."

Here Doom has unlimited power, a power that can create, destroy, change reality. In that he is omni potent. But don't know how to use that power well enough to create a new universe. Because he is not perfect, he can not create a multiverse such as the previous one.

Create an universe is not easy. I mean it is not because I have a pen that I can write the great book that will inspire humanity for the next millenium.

[markallenchi]

You guys/gals really hate Cyke. I was hoping he played a bigger role in the overall story. And what was the purpose of Manifold bringing him along if he was just going to die in the first fight?

Anyway, I think the Illuminati base in Wakanda is still intact and that means the Bridge is still there. Strange made it a point to stress that parts of the original world still existed and he has seen (and hide) a lot from Doom. I think Strange found some things that could bring Doom down and that's where he sent ALL of them. The Cabal will end up working with the 616 heros. If you recall, the Bridge opens up to an area that exist outside space-time so it's plausable that the Council of Reeds chamber still exists and maybe Val has been working to rebuild the Council (and their Infinity Gauntlets) to eventually fight Doom.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

You guys/gals really hate Cyke. I was hoping he played a bigger role in the overall story. And what was the purpose of Manifold bringing him along if he was just going to die in the first fight?

Anyway, I think the Illuminati base in Wakanda is still intact and that means the Bridge is still there. Strange made it a point to stress that parts of the original world still existed and he has seen (and hide) a lot from Doom. I think Strange found some things that could bring Doom down and that's where he sent ALL of them. The Cabal will end up working with the 616 heros. If you recall, the Bridge opens up to an area that exist outside space-time so it's plausable that the Council of Reeds chamber still exists and maybe Val has been working to rebuild the Council (and their Infinity Gauntlets) to eventually fight Doom.

I can see that happening. It might seem cheap to people who haven't been following Hickman's work but I can see it. Not working with Thanos or Terrax though. Those two love murder.

[vitruvian]

Yeah I think Cyclops, even with a snapped neck, may have survived. As far as Strange...less of a chance. But there was no visible corpse at Doom's feet... We also should remember Doom's history of sabotaging himself in the original SW (subconsciously resurrecting the heroes repeatedly).

He may have pulled an Obi-Wan and still be around at least in astral form, but who knows.

[vitruvian]

I suspect purely because of the threat level a Phoenix possesses, Doom would make sure that he stays down.

True. It seems highly unlikely that he was just snapping the guy's neck, as opposed to somehow suppressing the Phoenix Force at the same time. Which Beyonder power should reasonably be able to do, even if Doom's not quite as omnipotent as he likes to make out.

[vitruvian]

No, Strange teleported them all away and then Doom Dropped Cyclops. Keep in mind Doom has the power of the Beyonders and that same power killed Phoenix's from other multiverses, Living Tribunal which is more powerful than a PF. So for Hickman to let PF Cyke live would undermine his own work and I don't recall Hickman pulling stunts like that. BMB has but I don't recall hickman having done so. Beside in BMB past interview He himself stated we'll learn how Cyclops lost the PF.

If I read the panels correctly, Doom transported Jane Foster Thor back to his castle along with the rest of his Thors (he must have thought she was one of his), so now she's on the inside and has an opportunity to find out how the Thor Corps and Doom's rule really work.

[vitruvian]

No, Strange teleported them all away and then Doom Dropped Cyclops. Keep in mind Doom has the power of the Beyonders and that same power killed Phoenix's from other multiverses, Living Tribunal which is more powerful than a PF. So for Hickman to let PF Cyke live would undermine his own work and I don't recall Hickman pulling stunts like that. BMB has but I don't recall hickman having done so. Beside in BMB past interview He himself stated we'll learn how Cyclops lost the PF.

I don't think we actually saw the Phoenix Force among the cosmic abstracts and entities that the Beyonders were killing, but certainly if Doom has even a fraction of the whole race's power, and they're comparable to the original Secret Wars Beyonder, he should still be more than a match for PhoenixClops.

[Godzilla2099]

I'm glad Doctor Strange had such an important role. I view him as the chain holding things together. Without him, Doom is going to get pushed to the edge. With all the years they've been together, I can't help but wonder if things could have been handled better between them. I guess its just me, but that final scene felt too quick. I liked reading them working together. They by far had the most success trying to save everything compared to the other heroes

I also don't see Strange gone. I immediately thought of Vader vs Obi-Wan from ANH

I just didn't get why Doom didn't care about the news Valeria gave to him about the 1610 Raft filled with the Cabal (although I consider 1610 Reed the biggest danger) beating the crap out of his Thor Corps. I know Doom has an ego but a threat like those guys are a little more than gnats. Also, I figured with all the power Doom now has, he'd want the chance to own them.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

If I read the panels correctly, Doom transported Jane Foster Thor back to his castle along with the rest of his Thors (he must have thought she was one of his), so now she's on the inside and has an opportunity to find out how the Thor Corps and Doom's rule really work.

You're right. I've never noticed that but she did disappear.

[vitruvian]

Strange probably sent them to places where he thought they would be useful or places that would give a reason to want to better the world. BP to Wakanda, Namor to Atlantis, etc. He said he seen many things so to those secret places.

Speaking of Namor, you'd think Victor would have given a little more acknowledgement or recognition that he was seeing his world's Namor for the first time in years here. Guess that long relationship was a little more one sided than even Namor ever realized...