Secret Wars #4 spoiler

[Habis]

It is what happened with the first Secret Wars. And it is not a really good ending to just go at some point "hey I am just going to rebuild the universe. YOLO. The End."

Here Doom has unlimited power, a power that can create, destroy, change reality. In that he is omni potent. But don't know how to use that power well enough to create a new universe. Because he is not perfect, he can not create a multiverse such as the previous one.

Create an universe is not easy. I mean it is not because I have a pen that I can write the great book that will inspire humanity for the next millenium.

GREAT comparison. Just because you've the tools does not means you're able to use it at their full potential. Just because you know how to make some sketch does not means you areht enext Jack Kirby, just because you have pen and paper does not means you're JRR tolkien, just because you've a camera does not automatically make you Steven Spielberg or Fellini, and so on...
Doom has the tools of the trade...but know very little how to use them. Infact i think that ther eis a little fear from his part to exert the full power, like a fear to go full Tetsuro(from Akira Movie) on the world he "created"

As I said in another thread:

He doesn't need to be Omniscient. Doom knows very well the laws of physics and how the Universe was formed. He can replicate the Big Bang without need to be Omniscient.

Hell, a group of scientist form Earth 616 replicated the Big Bang by accident once, while trying to use their Universal Compressor to empower Nebula. The human scientist Pythagoras Dupree and Hera worked together to create a new universe once. Even regular, human Doom should be able to do what those people did, if he tried hard enough (he might have to recruit some gods in order to fulfill Hera's part, however, no big deal, in the MU deities are a dime a dozen).

I think Doom can't recreate the Universe because, despite all his blunder, he's psychologically crippled.

He has gotten absolute power several times before, and he always messed it. During the previous Secret Wars he basically defeated himself because he was unable to control infinite power, and when he got the Infinity Gems he sabotaged himself by creating the beings that would take them from him. Another time he got Galactus's power AND a Cosmic Cube and he forgot to watch over the Cosmic Cube. And yet another time he got the power of the Lifesforce and he almost killed himself by absorbing too much of it...

I think self-doubt has finally creeped into Doom's soul. He must be terribly afraid of repeating his past mistakes, he probably keeps watching himself in search of flaws or weaknesses, the chink in the armor that will make him loss his power again.

In addition to that, he recently has been forced to face his imperfections: His defeat at Scott Lang's hands, who could see through him and told him to his face his true nature, his exposure to the power of Loki's Sword of Truth, his time of introversion while inverted during Axis. Deep down he knows that he's unworthy of being God, and that gnaws at his soul. He lives in fear of the moment in which he will fall from his throne yet again.

Plus he knows that he has stolen Reed's family. He knows that he deserves punishment, and subconsciously he expects the man who has so many times been his undoing to come to get him yet again.

Hence the scarred face: It's the expression of his self-doubt and feelings of inadequacy.
Hence the lack of Omniscence: He's afraid of the sensory overload, of the distractions that will make him miss the dagger in the back.
Hence the lack of commitment to the rule of Battleworld, and why he doesn't dares to try to restore the Universe: He's afraid of using too much power.

[Narasinha]

Saved patches of earth at impact points. If they were copies we shouldn't have anyone defying him. So to say the least I'd say memory altered.

Yes, he "glued" together bits and pieces of various Earth to create Battleworld and the inhabitants were made to forget what was before and believe they always lived on Battleworld.

People are living on Battleworld since 8 years. (which cause some plot problems especialy with young characters: teens that are now older by 8 years should really looks like adults and not how they were before....)

[Xalfrea]

Ok so I'm aware about who died here, but what happened to those folks who were on the raft by the end of this issue?

[vitruvian]

Yup! and we've got two of them kicking about... though of course Doom will only care about HIS Reed, and of course 616 Reed will have far more of a grudge against Doom than Ultimate Reed.

Which only makes Ultimate Reed, the Maker, a bigger threat as neither one is really likely to see him coming as he plots to take over the whole shebang. Not that I think he'll succeed in the end, of course... but the guy does have a history of making big plays.

[vitruvian]

Im a little more forgiving on the religious nutjob side. Considering his storyline in UXM and how hes been hanging on by a thread for years, losing it would be par for the course. Dangerous/Crazy Scott can be kind of fun (from time to time of course, not permanently)

Yeah, I was hoping for somebody to immediately respond to his spiel about burning down the world to make a better one with a hearty, "Well, if by burning down you're talking about anything that involves killing a bunch of people.... no, not so much, Scott. You got a fever or something?"

[vitruvian]

And the Beyonders are stronger than Doom. Yet, here we are...

Is gravity stronger than electromagnetism? Does that have a meaning? They are just base forces of our universe. That's "how it work". Is there a meaning to compare the LT and the PF? They are part of the Marvel universe. That's "how it work". Perhaps the PF can't destroy the LT. But can the LT destroy/create universe? They just don't have the same role in the working of the multiverse.

To answer your question... yes, the LT was perfectly capable of destroying universes. That's "how it work".

[Prof. Warren]

Wow. That's probably the best way to describe this issue. Wow. It had that kind of impact.

My sentiments exactly. This series continues to blow me away. Amazing issue.

[Avenger JD]

This was another amazing issue! I think Hickman glossed over the fight between the Thors and Life Raft Survivors vs the Cabal, but it was still amazing. My only question is what do the 616 heroes think will happen if they take Doom's power? If Battleworld is the last surviving piece of the multiverse, and you take the power from the "God" responsible for creating it, wouldn't there be a risk of it all falling apart? What evidence do they have that suggests they could save the multiverse if they were to take Doom's power? Does the multiverse just need someone capable of restoring everything, apparently, Reed Richards?

[ExodusCloak]

Just like Strange could smell it, Doom's fear was reeking off him throughout the whole issue the moment he knew Reed was there. He was posturing yes...because he's afraid. You posture and preen because you're afraid people know you're afraid.

Now possibly, there is a survival issue here. I still think a lot of Doom's power is faith-based. The moment Doom starts doubting himself because Reed's there, his entire control might start break, Battleworld would probably literally start to break. The worse thing is when God stops believing in himself, that's pretty much kaput as far as faith-based powers go.



Have to agree, as far as the cosmic powers go, the Phoenix force was never up there with the Infinity Gauntlet level of cosmic entities (by that, I mean the ones they called in when Thanos had it were beings like Master Order and Lord Chaos; Mistress Hate and Lady Love; Eternity etc.)

The Phoenix Force is the spark of the big bang. It will create a new multiverse, at the moment there are no other realities, this is an isolated world. The Phoenix Force will fix that.

[Jean Grey]

Looking at the panels, Doom snaps Cyclops > Strange teleports everyone away > Cyclops falls to the ground

So I don't think Cyclops got ported away, I doubt the Phoenix is dead, it's just a question of whether it will revive Cyclops or not

[ExodusCloak]

Obviously Cyclops isn't dead, unless Doom killed him some other way Celeste as a Phoenix got her hate sliced opened in Warsong by Wolverine and healed instantly.

[Drakeon]

I have a question.

During the Original Sin arc Cap is sent to the future. It is explained that no matter what they all fail. Everything dies. But did it ever explain in those futures HOW they were still around if in fact the final inursion happened?

[Narasinha]

To answer your question... yes, the LT was perfectly capable of destroying universes. That's "how it work".

Having the power doesn't mean he can do it. It's responsible to pass impartial judgment and act only on what is the greatest good of the multiverse. So, no, he can't destroy the multiverse (except if he judge that it's the best for it...)

[Crimz]

I thought Hickman stated that Sue wasn't the 616 but one he created?

Yeah, but Hickman has lied before to throw people off. I wouldn't be surprised if he was telling the truth and she is an alternate version.

But this issue made me think i could be 616 Sue.

[ExodusCloak]