Secret Wars #4 spoiler

[cwatz]

Nope, it was the lighting Emma's costume was also blue in Warsong in different panels even though she wears white. The Phoenix colour is very important to the Phoenix mythos. If you look up Crown Chakra you'll see why she's called the Phoenix of the White Crown.

Historically its had importance. I'm not sure the same holds true today. Not unlike all the other mythos behind it that has changed many times over. Lets also not forget Cyke's probably rocking more red than white with that costume.

I don't have sources at my hands, but just pulling some random wiki type stuff: "Inside the White Hot Room is the Crown. Several times Jean spoke of being in the Crown, and the Phoenix Consciousness labeled her a White Phoenix of the Crown. However, it has yet to be explored as to what the Crown actually is. " Just some broadstrokes pointing out this isn't a costume or a chakra tree we are talking about at this point. Now were talking about the WHR and Phoenix space magic business.

Saw your other thread which has me intrigued, ill post more there later.

[Hariel0079]

Phoenix apparently comes from nothing. "Born void between states of being,.." (quoting Marvel's website there), you really think it can't survive here in Battleworld? You say it needs life to exist, yet here it has plenty. A world of people/life that Doom has created.

Doom didn't create the people and void and state of being mean it was created from something as in whatever created the universe. I gave a canonical reference of Rachel vs gslactus for a reason simply cause when gslactus tried to absorb the PF the universe itself was dying thus showing us as in the readers connection. So again no universe no PF.

I highly suggest you read today's interview, Hickman does answer some Doom questions.

[The Fury]

Doom didn't create the people and void and state of being mean it was created from something as in whatever created the universe. I gave a canonical reference of Rachel vs gslactus for a reason simply cause when gslactus tried to absorb the PF the universe itself was dying thus showing us as in the readers connection. So again no universe no PF.

I highly suggest you read today's interview, Hickman does answer some Doom questions.

I know Doom didn't create people, which is why the Phoenix should be fine. A universe dieing would mean there are no people, so no Phoenix. Yet here, in Battleworld there are lots of people all from different universes. If by what you say is true, no universe no PF, then as soon as everything ended, Summers would have lost his power. He didn't, something was sustaining the PF.

I will.

[Panfoot]

Well...that was pretty dull. It almost got kind of interesting when Cyclops stepped up and did his speech but nope, back to Doom is the greatest thing ever. I'm finding it really hard at this point to get excited for the next issue to come out given just how slow the pacing has been.

[jphamlore]

Who is 616 Reed Richards to judge anything when he and the rest of the Illuminati other than Namor and Maximus ran away and were going to let two universes be vaporized without telling anyone else what the problem was?

[Iron Maiden]

So yeah, another droll, dull issue. Hickman's writing is just so dry that there's no energy behind this thing. This could have been told in half the pages, but this series just has to be 8 issues for some reason.

I see a lot of gushing over Doom here, and he is a really cool character, but it's almost as if a lot of you guys haven't read previous Doom stories at all. He has done similar things in the past (not to the same scale), and done them better. He has conquered in stories that moved and had a pulse, and it's like a bunch of folks are being exposed to him for the first time. Hickman doesn't deserve the credit for riffing on an old song, playing it much much slower.

I really don't like what's being done with Dr. Strange here either. The incoming power was so overwhelming that it scared Stephen, but knowing full well that Doom would receive it, he turns away? He doesn't step up and sacrifice himself to stop the villain from winning it all? It's just not very heroic at all. Watching Strange play lapdog to Doom (for however long) doesn't feel right, and chips away at the Dr. Strange character.

Otherwise, what did we have here? Doom sitting in a chair, talking to his servants about stuff going on. Then he arrives on the scene and blows stuff up. The end. I must be old, but I remember when comic books contained a hell of a lot more story than that.

If that is all you're getting out of it that maybe this story isn't for you. And as someone who read their first Doom story in FF#40 from the spinner rack (we swapped our friend next door for it), I think this may be one of the best Doom stories ever with the exception of Triumph and Torment. It is most certainly the most interesting match up for Victor and Reed since FF#198-200

[Iron Maiden]

PF has no life without a universe. If there's no universe it can't exist since its connection to it. ( Rachel vs galactus )

The final issue of NA we don't really no what happend, just doom attacking and him saying "no" white flash the end. Jump to secret wars 1 we see doom at the end, SW#2 BW, now Hickman in today's breakdown of this weeks issue of SW stated that 5 will elaborate what NA finale never gave us.

All the discussion about the Phoenix I think is really pointless. It just appeared to show Doom dealing with it. If it appears again, he'd do the same. Kill its host. It should be quite obvious from today's interview with Hickman and Brevoort that Doom is the Atlas that is holding up the whole shebang. Doom don't want no Phoenix there ain't gonna be no Phoenix. I think they're positioning Thanos to be the serpent in Doom's paradise, maybe not even just Reed. Face it folks, Reed and Victor are the main event. Everything else is the undercard.

[jphamlore]

We see in this issue what Doom learned from his experiences as the god of his own universe in Hickman's Fantastic Four #611.

He learned nothing. Absolutely nothing. He overestimates just how much control that he has with his powers over those he considers his inferiors. His minions always eventually defy him as Strange must, yet there is no plan other than possibly killing Strange who was doing all of the dirty work Doom didn't want to do.

[XPac]

All the discussion about the Phoenix I think is really pointless. It just appeared to show that Doom dealing with it. If it appears again, he'd do the same. Kill its host. It should be quite obvious from today's interview with Hickman and Brevoort that Doom is the Atlas that is holding up the whole shebang. Doom don't want no Phoenix there ain't gonna be no Phoenix. I think they're positioning Thanos to be the serpent in Doom's paradise, maybe not even just Reed. Face it folks, Reed and Victor are the main event. Everything else is the undercard.

Given that the Phoenix was essentially threatening the world, you can frankly argue Doom saved what's left of reality a second time by taking out Phoenix.

[emac1790]

All the discussion about the Phoenix I think is really pointless. It just appeared to show that Doom dealing with it. If it appears again, he'd do the same. Kill its host. It should be quite obvious from today's interview with Hickman and Brevoort that Doom is the Atlas that is holding up the whole shebang. Doom don't want no Phoenix there ain't gonna be no Phoenix. I think they're positioning Thanos to be the serpent in Doom's paradise, maybe not even just Reed. Face it folks, Reed and Victor are the main event. Everything else is the undercard.

100% in agreement. Two Reeds and Thanos vs God Doom.

All this talk about how powerful the PF is and it let it's host's neck get snapped.

[XPac]

100% in agreement. Two Reeds and Thanos vs God Doom.

All this talk about how powerful the PF is and it let it's host's neck get snapped.

I do think it was important to show just how powerful Doom was, because even though he was ruling Battle World I at least wasn't entirely sure. The guy still couldn't fix his face... so I wasn't sure if he was uber cosmic level like he was during the first Secret Wars. But we got our answer... he can take down the Phoenix. So we know this isn't a time where the heroes can just walk up to Doom and proceed to try and punching him out.

[Username taken]

All the discussion about the Phoenix I think is really pointless. It just appeared to show that Doom dealing with it. If it appears again, he'd do the same. Kill its host. It should be quite obvious from today's interview with Hickman and Brevoort that Doom is the Atlas that is holding up the whole shebang. Doom don't want no Phoenix there ain't gonna be no Phoenix. I think they're positioning Thanos to be the serpent in Doom's paradise, maybe not even just Reed. Face it folks, Reed and Victor are the main event. Everything else is the undercard.

I love this analogy!

[XPac]

I love this analogy!

Really I think Breevort essentially admitted that everything Hickman has done was a Doom/Reed story. Granted it was sort of a joking admission... but it was funny because it was at least KINDA true.

[Conway]

All the discussion about the Phoenix I think is really pointless. It just appeared to show that Doom dealing with it. If it appears again, he'd do the same. Kill its host. It should be quite obvious from today's interview with Hickman and Brevoort that Doom is the Atlas that is holding up the whole shebang. Doom don't want no Phoenix there ain't gonna be no Phoenix. I think they're positioning Thanos to be the serpent in Doom's paradise, maybe not even just Reed. Face it folks, Reed and Victor are the main event. Everything else is the undercard.

Yeah, it's interesting that people are focusing on anything else. It's clear that they chose the people on the "Life Raft" to be the people that remember the old universes when this is all over, but they're not important to the story besides that. This is all Doom v. Richards. It's messed up that the portrayal of Doom is so lazy though. If this is supposed to be his great moment I would've liked to see a better characterization. I think Hickman just needs a break at this point.

[Habis]

We see in this issue what Doom learned from his experiences as the god of his own universe in Hickman's Fantastic Four #611.

He learned nothing. Absolutely nothing. He overestimates just how much control that he has with his powers over those he considers his inferiors. His minions always eventually defy him as Strange must, yet there is no plan other than possibly killing Strange who was doing all of the dirty work Doom didn't want to do.

Times that Doom has gotten Omnipotency and lost it:

1. Secret Wars I: Got Galactus's and the Beyonder's power, and lost it due to his lack of control (he basically defeated himself).
2. Stole the power of Aron the Watcher and contained it within his armor, challenged Uatu in order to steal all the cosmic stuff he keeps in his fortress. Reed tricked him into overcharguing his armor and blow himself.
3. Got the power of Galactus, a Cosmic Cube, the Watchers' Globe of Ultimate Knowledge and Annihilus Power Rod. Got defeated because he forgot to watch over the Cosmic Cube, allowing Reed to touch it.
4. Got the Infinity Gems, re-created an universe. Created the beings that would steal the Gems from him.
5. Children’s Crusade: Got the power of the Lifeforce. Absorbed too much of it and overloaded.
6. Secret Wars III (now): Got the power of the Beyonders. We all know what is going to happen.