Secret Wars #4 spoiler

[NunoTaborda]

It should be noted to people that we only saw Doom kill the Phoenix host, but not the Phoenix Force (PF) itself. After all, the PF survived all of Jean's deaths. So, PF is still available to a) revive Cyclops, b) find a new host, or c) be available to Reed and the others in order to restart the multiverse in some way.

It's not the PF itself that's in question, It's the host.

in mutopia the have a Phoenix Egg (E for Extinction #1 SW Tie-in)

Xtinction Agenda Rachael seems to be imbued with the PF

A-Force we have Jean in PF costume.

And all of those PF were created by Doom, so the one that was with Cyclops may still have a part on this story...

You're right! Though my memory of the comic is shaky, didn't the first Beyonder manage to slip into Klaw, and use him to constantly prod and insert doubt into Doom? I'm sure that at one point, the Beyonder managed to make Doom think of a scenario where everyone survived...and it happened!

And that's the kind of power I was thinking that this current God-Doom should have. It should be 'think and it shall be'; instead of making big booms.

The thing is that God-Doom right now is like Odin - the powerset is that he's physically and cosmically powerful, and overpowers people. Has creation powers, but is tied to that kind of terrestrial style that Odin does. That's the impression I get.

While in the first Secret Wars, the powers he got from the Beyonder were appropriately 'unlimited'. He couldn't even sleep because his reality-bending powers would cause his dreams to happen. That's the kind of power level of a god.

So it's weird, either they (the writers) deliberately put a much higher limit on Doom this time to make it easier to write the whole stories...or he is quite obviously not using the power of a Beyonder (I'm aware that the first Beyonder got retconned, but really, at least the same power level should be expected).

I agree with you and think that, after Doom starts doubting himself, everything will crumble.

Don't forget, it's a mortal with God powers... He had 8 years to train is powers (more then he had before with the other Beyonder power)... But in the end, all depends on the limitations of his human mind...

[NunoTaborda]

thanks everyone fo the answers..im on my phone so i cant really type everyones names in

do you think strange sent them to random locations or preplanned it? like sent them to the places where he think will benefit the most.
maybe thats why thanos is in shield on the future covers of sw?

I think Strange didn't wanted Doom to be God but it was the only good option available.

Now, he must have thought: There is a way out of this.

So he must have sent them to strategic parts of the battleworld (and seeing a big villain as Thanos in there, he should had sent him to the place where he will be to busy to be a problem for the heroes).

I'm not worried about Cyclops. It's tough to kill life incarnate.

Cyclops isn't life incarnate PF is and it left the building...

I think this issue showed he is not an omnipotent God

hes just really freaking powerful

Agree!!!!

[emac1790]

I couldn't read that attach file so I rechecked comicvine.

The Phoenix Force is an immortal entity and is the prime universal force of life. It was born of the void, between states of being. It is the origin of all psionic energy and will exist forever in all realities of the omniverse.

Being it's "born of the void, between state of beings" (i'm guessing high entities such as eternity and so forth) I doubt it's stronger than the LT in anyway.

It exsist in all Realities, and many marvel writers from the 90's have shown multiple PF's through different realities.

The page states...

Born of the void between states of being, the Phoenix Force is allegedly a nexus of all the psionic energy that has, does, and ever will exist in all realities of the Multiverse.

[Byakko]

I don't think that's what it means. Doom saved patches of the multiverse. So real is not the question, but version is and from which universe they used to reside. It isn't unheard of of a counterpart to be stronger than the other or vice versa.

It's been mentioned sometimes that the 'tangent' universe counterparts tend to be less important/powerful. In the case of the Young Avengers, back in Young Avengers Vol. 2, they kept going into alternate realities with alternate thems, but none of them were as powerful or as 'significant', which was why the multiuniverse parasite, Mother, that they were escaping from didn't care about those reality versions and instead wanted the 616ers, particularly Wiccan since apparently even in the multiverse and despite there being versions of him, him as the 616 version was the one who would be the most powerful.

[Narasinha]

Also a key point here- there are only two Reeds in all of Battleworld- Maker and 616 Richards. So Doom didn't kill any Reeds or steal Sue from any Reeds. But he did recreate Reed's family.

Isn't there one traped in the "sun" ?

[Hariel0079]

You're right! Though my memory of the comic is shaky, didn't the first Beyonder manage to slip into Klaw, and use him to constantly prod and insert doubt into Doom? I'm sure that at one point, the Beyonder managed to make Doom think of a scenario where everyone survived...and it happened!

And that's the kind of power I was thinking that this current God-Doom should have. It should be 'think and it shall be'; instead of making big booms.

The thing is that God-Doom right now is like Odin - the powerset is that he's physically and cosmically powerful, and overpowers people. Has creation powers, but is tied to that kind of terrestrial style that Odin does. That's the impression I get.

While in the first Secret Wars, the powers he got from the Beyonder were appropriately 'unlimited'. He couldn't even sleep because his reality-bending powers would cause his dreams to happen. That's the kind of power level of a god.

So it's weird, either they (the writers) deliberately put a much lower limit on Doom this time to make it easier to write the whole stories...or he is quite obviously not using the power of a Beyonder (I'm aware that the first Beyonder got retconned, but really, at least the same power level should be expected).

I wouldn't be surprised that's the power he has currently. Probably why Doom isn't all omnipotent. He couldn't heal his face but can create worlds (on a technical level) and change stars into moljher... if he's using stars at all or just creating them off mere thought.

[emac1790]

But why is it a bird form? That was always the thing that needled me about the PF. It's obviously a metaphor of the real-world phoenix, but if you expand it to a cosmic level, what about the planets that didn't even evolve birds? What metaphor is the PF then? Why has it always been stuck in its metaphor that only works on Earth history or planets with birds?

More from the Handbook...

The Force allowed itself to be shaped by Feron's dreams into the form of a giant firebird.

[PlanetaryDevastation]

Isn't there one traped in the "sun" ?

That's Johnny. Not Reed.

[Hariel0079]

The page states...

Born of the void between states of being, the Phoenix Force is allegedly a nexus of all the psionic energy that has, does, and ever will exist in all realities of the Multiverse.

similar if not same difference to what comicvine has?

[Byakko]

Writers choice. That's what I'll go with. I'd ask stan lee or CC. To be honest I'd say they were going with the Real-world lore here.

I always thought it detracted a lot from its true power level and purpose. If it was shown to at least be mostly formless and just changed to that world's version of the 'phoenix resurrection myth', then it would be more obviously 'cosmic' and universal. As it is, I just think fire-chicken. Who tends to latch onto redheads for some reason.

More from the Handbook...

The Force allowed itself to be shaped by Feron's dreams into the form of a giant firebird.

Sorry for being lazy but who is that?

[Hariel0079]

More from the Handbook...

The Force allowed itself to be shaped by Feron's dreams into the form of a giant firebird.

I maybe wrong but I think he's meaning on literal terms why choose a bird form.

[Hariel0079]

I always thought it detracted a lot from its true power level and purpose. If it was shown to at least be mostly formless and just changed to that world's version of the 'phoenix resurrection myth', then it would be more obviously 'cosmic' and universal. As it is, I just think fire-chicken. Who tends to latch onto redheads for some reason.

Well the redhead lore is broken since AvX so their that

[emac1790]

similar if not same difference to what comicvine has?

The Handbook info is official. ComicVine's info is not. But it's damn near the same.

[Byakko]

Well the redhead lore is broken since AvX so their that

Well it was because PF got rejected by Hope, so it did the huffy thing and found people who would appreciate its burny awesomeness :<

[emac1790]

Sorry for being lazy but who is that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feron