Magnus Family Appreciation

[teapartyofthedead]

Wait, how does it work that children who were taken in by a terrorist specifically to be terrorist and physically and emotionally abused when they didn't, being in any way unreasonable to later call him out or to hold resentment toward their abuser? Child soldiers are slaves. Don't get me wrong, I love Magneto, but I'm not going to pretend he wasn't abusive to orphan children, even if he didn't know they were his children or that he was undergoing terrible mental health issues at the time while also trying to fight a revolution. Adults abusing children is never all right, no matter the excuse or reasoning behind it. Nor does Pietro and Wanda growing up make that go away, since childhood abuse can have lifelong effects, nor do they have any obligation to understand that or to forgive him. Pietro joined only because Wanda felt obligated to Magneto for saving their lives, but at no time did they actually want to commit terrorism. Hell, Pietro stopped Magneto from blowing up San Marco, and Wanda stopped Magneto with her powers to stop him from killing the X-Men. Yes, Pietro held resentment and distrust for humanity, but Pietro and Wanda were children who were pressured to join a terrorist cell, and that should not be erased.

It's something I think gets lost in our desire to have the House of M whole and happy for once. We need to acknowledge that Erik fucked up, something even he admits and said he doesn't blame the twins for that. Erik knows that in his darkest years after Magda left that he had done terrible things even for good reasons, and not all of them can be justified. Nor should fans act as if Pietro and Wanda carrying hurt and trauma from those years, and holding that against their abusive father, is any way unreasonable. I actually can't believe I have to type this out.

No, it doesn't mean Erik is responsible for all their actions, good or bad. Pietro is responsible for the Silent War, Wanda is responsible for M-Day. But Erik was abusive to them and that he can never atone for that and can only hope they can forgive him someday, as many abusive parents who later come to understand their actions and try to be better for their children. I would love to see them try to reconcile and tackle their family issues through talk therapy, to work together towards mutant liberation, and occasionally go to the south of France on holiday. But I don't want that abuse made light of or brushed off, or that the twins don't have a right to their pain as a result of their father's actions.

[jmc247]

Child soldiers are slaves. Don't get me wrong, I love Magneto, but I'm not going to pretend he wasn't abusive to orphan children, even if he didn't know they were his children or that he was undergoing terrible mental health issues at the time while also trying to fight a revolution.

No, child soldiers are child soldiers, be they from Xavier's school or the Brotherhood. Xavier can call them students not soldiers, but was willing to send them off to fight and even mind wipe them to keep his undeclared little army together. The Avengers taking him on in the end are also using child soldiers because they intended him and Wanda to fight for them.

Pietro choose to be with the Brotherhood and didn't have a gun put to his head the way conscripts typically do in war. Also, really don't assume that I am saying that using the word slave goes too far because of some happy image of them all together, because you would happen to be completely wrong on that score as in totally.

Look he is your favorite character and I respect that, but when a writer uses a loaded term like slave its going to issues and on this score I am on the side of the man Pietro turned into a clown and is mocking and can't defend himself... Pietro made his own life choices a great many of them to please Magneto, but he never felt Magneto even really noticed him or cared.



In the end the character will have to come to terms with his own actions one day. I felt he was starting to on PAD's second run on X-Factor until he was back on the Avengers. Its natural to want to blame all of ones life choices on ones father figure, God only knows Silver Age Magneto was quite the bastard, but Pietro's life actions were his own for the good bad bad unlike those of a slave.

I am a fan of the character and Pietro though I historically always saw him a bit more in between Wanda (he is a monster who used me as a weapon) and Lorna (Magneto and Xavier's school's are just indoctrination centers for the young whose prospective is just the POV on the headmaster on what they think needs to be done).



Pietro explained many times in the 60s his antipathy for human persecution was a force behind his presence in the Brotherhood and Magneto did become sort of like an overbearing father figure to him that he wanted to please. With Wanda it was purely out of a sense of obligation for saving her.

[Michael Watkins]

Didn't Django kidnap them?

[teapartyofthedead]

No, child soldiers are child soldiers, be they from Xavier's school or the Brotherhood. Xavier can call them students not soldiers, but was willing to send them off to fight and even mind wipe them to keep his army together. The Avengers taking him on in the end are also using child soldiers because they intended him and Wanda to fight.

Pietro choose to be with the Brotherhood and didn't have a gun put to his head the way conscripts in war do. Also, really don't assume that I am saying that using the word slave goes too far because of some happy image of them all together, because you would happen to be completely wrong on that score as in totally.

Look he is your favorite character and I respect that, but when a writer uses a loaded term like slave its going to issues and on this score I am on the side of the man Pietro turned into a clown and is mocking and can't defend himself... Pietro made his own life choices a great many of them to please Magneto, but he never felt Magneto even really noticed him or cared.



In the end the character will have to come to terms with his own actions one day. I felt he was starting to on PAD's second run on X-Factor until he was back on the Avengers. Its natural to want to blame all of ones lives choices on ones father figure, God only knows Silver Age Magneto was quite the bastard, but Pietro was no slave.

Yes, I agree that Xavier and the Avengers are using child soldiers, and should be held accountable for that. Charles was terribly abusive to the X-Men even if he thought he had just cause, and if Scott and anyone else never forgive him, I wouldn't blame them either. Charles majorly fucked up and I want that addressed when he eventually comes back, though it probably won't be. The Avengers should have been flayed by media and government alike after Avengers Arena, but of course it was never bought up.

Again, children cannot be held accountable when their guardians are forcing them into it criminal action, because the power imbalance is too great and so the twins can't consent to be soldiers. Because they're children. Pietro was all for leaving and only stayed because Wanda was being pressured to believe that they owed Magneto to stay and be terrorist. Magneto did that because he was not in the right frame of mind to care for children and desperate to fight for mutantkind's survival but he did pressure them and even threatened them when they tried to leave, harassing them when they did to make them come back by arranging for Wanda to be attacked and for Pietro to believe that humans were responsible.

I'm sorry, but how is dressing Erik up as a clown and taking selfies in any way comparable to outright physical and mental abuse, or numerous murder attempts? If you had the chance to strike back against your abuser, wouldn't you? Hell, Magneto himself would agree he got off lightly, because he knows he fucked up. It's why he said in Children's Crusade he didn't blame the twins for being angry with him. It's why he keeps trying to be a better father to them but struggles with his own mental illness as a result of his own horrific past and trying to keep mutantkind from extermination. Someday, I want the House of M to heal, but without brushing this under the rug.

I'm not speaking as a Pietro or Magnus family fan. I'm speaking as a survivor of childhood abuse. So when I see people actually saying that survivors of childhood abuse are just using it as an excuse for their actions, it really gets to me and I have to say something. You didn't intend to sound like you were , but that's how it came out. I still can't believe this is a discussion that is happening.

[jmc247]

I'm sorry, but how is dressing Erik up as a clown and taking selfies in any way comparable to outright physical and mental abuse, or numerous murder attempts? If you had the chance to strike back against your abuser, wouldn't you?

That is not at all what I said. I believe he looks childish. Not that it equalized any sort of scales.

Perhaps his own multiple physical attacks on Magneto over the years equalize the scales? No I don't believe that either.



You are arguing Magneto and Pietro should deal as adults with their past issues together. The Pietro of Children's Crusade seemed about ready for that, this Pietro so far not so much.

[teapartyofthedead]

That is not at all what I said. I believe he looks childish. Not that it equalized any sort of scales.

Perhaps his own multiple physical attacks on Magneto over the years equalize the scales? No I don't believe that either.



You are arguing Magneto and Pietro should be deal as adults with their past issues together. The Pietro of Children's Crusade seemed about ready for that, this Pietro not so much.

No, I'm arguing that stating survivors of childhood abuse are using their past as an excuse for their actions is incredibly problematic

[jmc247]

No, I'm arguing that stating survivors of childhood abuse should not be said they are using their past as an excuse for their actions.

And, I was saying Pietro as well as Wanda joined the Brotherhood of their own accord just like they joined the Avengers of their own accord and I stand by that assertion.

[teapartyofthedead]

And, I was saying Pietro as well as Wanda joined the Brotherhood of their own accord just like they joined the Avengers of their own accord and I stand by that assertion.

And I will continue to say that children cannot consent to such things, especially when they are dependant on their guardian for survival and being mentally abused into believing that they have to be terrorist, especially when that happens ever day all over the world. And that it is incredible that anyone would argue otherwise.

The Avengers should have sent them into foster care and therapy, not sign them up for more fighting after being used as child soldiers.

[jmc247]

Magneto was not their guardian at least to start, he was someone who noticed Wanda and Pietro about to be killed by a bunch of humans and saved them and asked them to join his militant group and they did.

Everything that came later I am not debating, suffice it to say this debate has become circular and I have nothing left to say on that score.

The Avengers should have sent them into foster care and therapy, not sign them up for more fighting after being used as child soldiers.

Perhaps, but the situation in the Marvel world isn’t the same as our world were threats to all groups and all existence pop up all the time.

If it wasn’t for Pietro might any number of threats ended life on Earth? Quite possibly. These things have to be weighed. We don’t live in a world of genocidal robots and constant threats to all life everywhere.

[Doctor Know]

When Wanda and Pietro joined the Brotherhood, they weren't kids. Presumably they were young adults. The same age as Scott, Hank, Warren and Jean. Bobby was always said to be the youngest. Bobby's age running parallel to Johnny Storm and Peter Parker's (14-15).

In Uncanny X-Men vol 1 #4 and Avengers Origins: Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver:

Wanda and Pietro definitely look to be in their late teens, early 20s.





It's just par for the course for Pietro and Wanda to blame Magneto for everything that has gone wrong in their lives. Over their short stint in the Brotherhood (UXM #4-11).

[JasonEsta]

Wait, how does it work that children who were taken in by a terrorist specifically to be terrorist and physically and emotionally abused when they didn't, being in any way unreasonable to later call him out or to hold resentment toward their abuser? Child soldiers are slaves. Don't get me wrong, I love Magneto, but I'm not going to pretend he wasn't abusive to orphan children, even if he didn't know they were his children or that he was undergoing terrible mental health issues at the time while also trying to fight a revolution. Adults abusing children is never all right, no matter the excuse or reasoning behind it. Nor does Pietro and Wanda growing up make that go away, since childhood abuse can have lifelong effects, nor do they have any obligation to understand that or to forgive him. Pietro joined only because Wanda felt obligated to Magneto for saving their lives, but at no time did they actually want to commit terrorism. Hell, Pietro stopped Magneto from blowing up San Marco, and Wanda stopped Magneto with her powers to stop him from killing the X-Men. Yes, Pietro held resentment and distrust for humanity, but Pietro and Wanda were children who were pressured to join a terrorist cell, and that should not be erased.

It's something I think gets lost in our desire to have the House of M whole and happy for once. We need to acknowledge that Erik fucked up, something even he admits and said he doesn't blame the twins for that. Erik knows that in his darkest years after Magda left that he had done terrible things even for good reasons, and not all of them can be justified. Nor should fans act as if Pietro and Wanda carrying hurt and trauma from those years, and holding that against their abusive father, is any way unreasonable. I actually can't believe I have to type this out.

No, it doesn't mean Erik is responsible for all their actions, good or bad. Pietro is responsible for the Silent War, Wanda is responsible for M-Day. But Erik was abusive to them and that he can never atone for that and can only hope they can forgive him someday, as many abusive parents who later come to understand their actions and try to be better for their children. I would love to see them try to reconcile and tackle their family issues through talk therapy, to work together towards mutant liberation, and occasionally go to the south of France on holiday. But I don't want that abuse made light of or brushed off, or that the twins don't have a right to their pain as a result of their father's actions.

Orphan Children? Who the hell are u talking about? Wanda and Pietro? Wtf...hahaha.

Wanda and Pietro werent pressured to do anything..they had a choice and they made it. It's not Magneto's fault if they dont have his fortitude and displayed a weak will at the time.

Fact of the matter is...Magneto didnt raise them. In fact, he did what Pietro couldnt do and saved Wanda. That's Magneto. That's what he does. No one made Wanda stay. No one made Colossus turn on the x men to see Magneto's path after they failed Illyana. No one forced Rusty and Skids to stay with Magneto after he freed them from Stryfe's mind control in Fatal Attractions. Amelia stood at his side..freely and openly..and she was right there in the mix with Xavier from the beginning and still saw his pacifist ways as weak and delusional.

Magneto is charismatic but he isnt a slave owner.

[JasonEsta]

And I will continue to say that children cannot consent to such things, especially when they are dependant on their guardian for survival and being mentally abused into believing that they have to be terrorist, especially when that happens ever day all over the world. And that it is incredible that anyone would argue otherwise.

The Avengers should have sent them into foster care and therapy, not sign them up for more fighting after being used as child soldiers.

They weren't children so your whole point didnt even have a good start.

[jmc247]

By Midoromi

[jmc247]

I ran across this that I hadn't seen in many many years from a 2005 magazine... a bit of humor with it.

[jmc247]

And, its Father's Day.

First up Pietro.