Favorite Batman theatrical film?

[byrd156]

I could be mistaken (it's been a while since I've watched Begins), but wasn't it Ra's that stabbed the train controls with his sword?

I thought Batman either threw or stabbed the console with Batarangs but I think you may be right.

[sunofdarkchild]

The League house he blew up is a little different. He was also inside and had to give himself time to have a fight scene and to escape before it blew completely, so he left the army of trained ninjas enough time to get out themselves if they'd take it. It was also a situation where he had no other option if he wanted to get out alive.

The train is him moralizing. He wouldn't be convicted in that case, but it still much closer to directly killing than I would expect from a 'I won't be an executioner' version of Batman. Note that he doesn't deny it when Talia accuses him of murdering Ra's.

[byrd156]

The League house he blew up is a little different. He was also inside and had to give himself time to have a fight scene and to escape before it blew completely, so he left the army of trained ninjas enough time to get out themselves if they'd take it. It was also a situation where he had no other option if he wanted to get out alive.

The train is him moralizing. He wouldn't be convicted in that case, but it still much closer to directly killing than I would expect from a 'I won't be an executioner' version of Batman. Note that he doesn't deny it when Talia accuses him of murdering Ra's.

Then in Rises he straight up kills Talia and some henchmen in the truck.

[sunofdarkchild]

Then in Rises he straight up kills Talia and some henchmen in the truck.

They had a nuke that was 2 minutes away from detonating. Can't really blame him there.

[Vworp Vworp]

I picked TDKR as my favourite. I do think TDK is a better movie, but TDKR has Hathaway kicking ass.

Rather than rank all of them, I'm, just gonna share me thoughts chronologically

Batman '66 - To this day, I can still remember the first time I saw this film. It was on TV, on a family holiday, presumably some time in the early 80's. All the family were there and during the Bat-Copter/Boat scene, there's that bit where Batman tells Robin to drop the Bat Ladder. As it dropped from the copter, I remember me Nan piped up; "That doesn't look like a Bat Ladder." And literally the moment after she said it, there was that shot of the label at the bottom, proclaiming it "Bat Ladder." Basically everyone just lost it at that point.

But you probably had to be there.

Anyway, I love the 66 movie. All the bad-guys together, the bomb scene, the noble porpoise... it's all brilliant. The only downside was that the movie came out just prior to Batgirl's debut. It would have been nice to see her in the movie too, even if she'd have probably spent most of the time getting tied-up and definitely not punching anyone.

Batman '89 - Still holds up immensely well, as much thanks to Keaton as Nicholson. Perhaps even moreso.

Batman Returns - Was never sold on DeVito's Penguin, but Pfeiffer is perfect and Christopher Walken is in it. Nuff said.

Batman Forever - Bottom of the pile, the absolute worst of the bunch. Bad villains with bad performances (even the usually always reliable Jones), a painfully boring Bats/Bruce and a horrible mish-mash of the gothic feel of Burton's movies with the more campy, colourful movie that Schumacher obviously wanted to make (and subsequently did!)

Batman and Robin - Oh, it is awful. But I like it. Here's the thing. Almost everything that's wrong with Batman and Robin is intentional. It's not bad film-making. It's actually very good film-making... of a very bad film. But for it's many, many, many faults, the one thing Batman and Robin never is is boring. And for that reason, I'll always consider it an infinitely better movie than Batman Forever.

Batman Begins - Superb. Bale is fantastic, Caine is the best Alfred ever (and it's also my favourite role of Mr Caine's too!) and Gary Oldman is... Gary Oldman.

The Dark Knight - As I said originally, I do consider this the best Batman movie, for numerous reasons - but naturally Ledger is the main one. However, best and favourite aren't always the same. I can recognise the superior quality of TDK, but at the end of the day, I enjoyed...

The Dark Knight Rises that little bit more.

Oh, and I just realised I forgot Phantasm. Which is actually quite appropriate, cos what I'd intended to write was that I honestly don't remember all that much about it. I know I've seen it... but I guess it didn't leave much of an impression.

[byrd156]

They had a nuke that was 2 minutes away from detonating. Can't really blame him there.

It's supposed to be Batman, you know the guy who hates killing and guns.

[sunofdarkchild]

It's supposed to be Batman, you know the guy who hates killing and guns.

He does hate killing and guns. But unlike in the comics sometimes there's no other way. This isn't Keaton smirking as he straps a ticking bomb to a crook. This is Batman reluctantly doing what he has to in order to save millions of people.

[dancj]

He does hate killing and guns. But unlike in the comics sometimes there's no other way.

Not that unlike the comics. Remember Final Crisis?

FWIW, I do blame him for killing the ninjas. The rampage in the tumbler was inexcusable and if he didn't kill anyone it was blind luck.

IIRC, the terribly crime that Azbats committed in Knighquest that caused Bruce to take the role of Batman back was choosing not to kill a villain in the same way that be chose not to kill Ra's in Batman Begins. Certainly by the comic Batman's rules that would count as killing.

Dent I've got no issue with. That was obviously accidental and there was no deliberate choice to let him die.

[Alan2099]

Batman and Robin - Oh, it is awful. But I like it. Here's the thing. Almost everything that's wrong with Batman and Robin is intentional. It's not bad film-making. It's actually very good film-making... of a very bad film. But for it's many, many, many faults, the one thing Batman and Robin never is is boring. And for that reason, I'll always consider it an infinitely better movie than Batman Forever.

I like to describe it as a big budget Hollywood version of the Adam West show. Once you look at it like that, it becomes tons better (although the West series still had better casting.)

[The Overlord]

I like to describe it as a big budget Hollywood version of the Adam West show. Once you look at it like that, it becomes tons better (although the West series still had better casting.)

Its the Adam West Batman that is 30 years out of date and without the charm and is far more obnoxious, its kinda like the first season TNG tried to be TOS 20 years later and that is why the first season of TNG is just bad, just saying that it was trying to ape TOS doesn't make it better. Its a giant toy commercial, that's the problem and Adam West Batman was never that.

Batman and Robin being a big budget Adam West Batman 30 years later doesn't make it good and certainly doesn't make anywhere as good as the better Batman movies out there.

[Alan2099]

its kinda like the first season TNG tried to TOS 20 years later and that is why the first season of TNG is just bad, just saying that it was trying to ape TOS doesn't make it better.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Words please. use words.

[The Overlord]

I have no clue what you're talking about. Words please. use words.

Alright, I guess I am using too many acronyms, the first season of Star Trek the Next Generation tried to be almost exactly like Star Trek the Original Series and that season sucked. Same deal with Batman and Robin and Adam West Batman, just because Batman and Robin tried to ape Adam West Batman 30 years later, doesn't make it good in any way, it just explains it why it is bad.

I think something can be light hearted and take it self seriously enough to present an exciting story, Batman and Robin did not do that. Most of the Marvel movies have managed to do that, Iron Man is not uber dark and had many fun moments but took itself seriously enough to be a good action film with real stakes.

[DonnyMac27]

I picked Mask of the Phantasm. I really think Batman '66 deserves to be on this list. It may not be Batmans finest outing, but it was his first feature length step into cinema.

[Vakanai]

Regarding Begins: He didn't save the terrorist from his evil terrorist train, big whoop. At best that's like manslaughter, but no jury in the world would even convict him of that much. He didn't shoot or stab the guy, he just did what he had to save the day, then left the crazy evil guy to be victim of his own evil plan. Batman didn't put R'as on that train and make him try to kill the city. Yeah Batman sabotaged said train to save the city, but in the end it was all on R'as, and Batman wasn't going to save him. Plus, in this version of the character, I feel it's different from the comics Batman in that comic Batman has a 'no killing ever' code and Nolan's Batman has a 'no murdering ever' code. It's not black and white, it is gray, grayer morality than we usually get in our comics perhaps, but not black. Batman certainly didn't think he killed R'as, plenty of people in this and other threads have said they didn't think it counted as Batman killing R'as, so obviously there is some wide differences in views on morality here, and that's okay. Chances are whether or not Batman killed R'as has less to deal with the actual act or non-act itself and more to do with where you stand on that line. So no, Batman did not kill R'as, and yes Batman did kill R'as, and you'll either be happy or not depending on your own moral view over that action, but Batman's guilt or lack thereof is not something concrete but rather murky and a little philosophical. Either way, plenty of leeway here for him to not consider himself a killer, like it or not.

As for other killings: Ninjas were more manslaughter, resultant chaos in the sheer act of trying to escape alive and unintentional and they had a chance to flee. If you can hold this against the man you are a far harder judge than I'd care to have ruling over me.

Dent was an accident, all Batman was probably thinking was 'tackle Dent, save kid.'

Talia and henchman were a serious extenuating circumstance, they were running with a nuke with like 2 minutes to go off. Writers wrote themselves into a corner, how else was Batman going to stop the nuke at that point, shout for Superman?

As for him running stuff down and blowing stuff up, it's like when Superman gets bashed through a building and it collapses, we assume no one was in it unless told otherwise. This isn't the real world, it is an action comic movie, it's just cliche nonsense, unless we see someone die when the Bat-tank crashes through stuff, no one did. Yeah in real life it'd be reckless, but in real life everything done in movies would be reckless and stupid, everything. Hell, if Indiana Jones was done with as much realism as possible while still allowing for biblical WMDs, the movie would have ended with the Nazis taking over the whole world some time after Indy died in that Mayan cave. No one would ever outrun the aim of someone with a freaking machine gun spitting out bullets like crazy. It's an action film, don't think too hard about it.

So, the only real debate over Batman being a killer is the R'as debate, and that's wholly subjective to an individual viewpoint of moral themes.

[Rey Leopard]

The Dark Knight is the best.