Angel's Aerie: Warren Worthington appreciation

[Thievery]

I liked the Death split personality persona when it first appeared in the Kyle/Yost run of X-Force. It made Warren different from the other X-characters. Now it just seems like a death sentence for Warren waiting to happen. That's what I mean when it reminds me of Phoenix. Usually when the Phoenix shows up Jean ends up dead. Neither of wich I would want for Warren.

As for weather or not the other X-Men are concerned about Warren, well, there are some spoilers about that in the Uncanny issue 2 preview. I usually do a pretty good job of avoiding previews these days, because I don't want to judge a comic based off of a partial preview. But, I gave in on this one.

I'll agree that Warren having issues with the Death persona has been given a bit of for shadowing, but it has been all over the place. Soule's Astonishing stated that X had fixed Archangel's mind. In Bunn's X-Men Blue, Warren was shown as being able to remain in his Archangel form with no control problems. And Finally, in the Astonishing Annual, Warren is shown as having trouble controlling his Archangel personality, even though he was already supposed to have been cured of it by X. The only thing that I can guess s that X deliberately lied about fixing Warren's mind.

Come to think about it, Warren did mention to Psylocke that he would have to leave the press conference because the senator was making him angry.

Still it is disappointing to me that they are going down this road again. I wanted a new story.

[Izanami]

I mean, Warren's suffering is like a third of the reasons I read X-Men comics lol

I know we make jokes about "hippie Angel" and all that, and while I had a lot of fun during Aaron's run, what happened to Angel there always really, really creeped me out. Yes, he might have been a blank slate left from the destruction of the Death seed, but another interpretation can be that Warren really did suffer a complete breakdown and found it easier to regress to a childlike state than deal with what happened.

What I mean is, I feel like we're past "brooding" and into legitimate mental illness territory.

I like the Death persona, especially with how it's been played recently. It's treated as being much more debilitating and almost reads more like a mental illness-
Holy ****, it is like the Phoenix! And I never really liked the Phoenix. But Death is fun.

Same. I was actually reading an interesting commentary about tragedies and maybe you will agree to this maybe you will not. The thing about sad endings and tragedies is that it allows the reader or the viewer to seek a more positive meaning in life. The problem following a tragedy however is negative since the individual has to take time to process the events and accept them. It kinda also explains why Happy endings tend to fizz out at times unless there is some sort of tragedy to compare them to or place side by side. It is why bittersweet endings tend to resonate more at times.

I always perceived the Death Persona as a metaphor for mental illness in Warren. People often assume due to having a good "life", money, and other materialistic things that there is no reason for a person to be "sad" or empty. We are reminded time and time again when a celebrity commits suicide and the recent push of awareness. You can also interpret it as a Warren's unhealthy behaviors and repressed emotions. Those things could make for an interesting read if Warren is given an appropiate solo. Kinda like what Mister Miracle is emulating if you get my connection.

I made a joke a while ago that Jean and Warren need to make an AA type club called this other me will never live it down co-starring Phoenix and Death. :P I viewed their storylines as two sides of the same coin. Even Angel had his Dark [insert subject] saga.

At this point they should retcon the blank slate Angel as Warren suffering a mental breakdown and regressing to the state of a child and having the Archangel that was found a literal persona split off from his body after his death. That way it could explain both their blank slates. They didn't do anything interesting with 05 Warren or Blank Slate Angel when it came to the consequences of DAS. Remender should of hijacked Angel to the Avengers at least we would of gotten some interesting interaction and less of Aaron's "meh" characterization. I knew what he was going for but it does a disservice to the character. Hippie Angel made people at least realize what made the Original interesting and it showed.

[Thievery]

Same. I was actually reading an interesting commentary about tragedies and maybe you will agree to this maybe you will not. The thing about sad endings and tragedies is that it allows the reader or the viewer to seek a more positive meaning in life. The problem following a tragedy however is negative since the individual has to take time to process the events and accept them. It kinda also explains why Happy endings tend to fizz out at times unless there is some sort of tragedy to compare them to or place side by side. It is why bittersweet endings tend to resonate more at times.

I always perceived the Death Persona as a metaphor for mental illness in Warren. People often assume due to having a good "life", money, and other materialistic things that there is no reason for a person to be "sad" or empty. We are reminded time and time again when a celebrity commits suicide and the recent push of awareness. You can also interpret it as a Warren's unhealthy behaviors and repressed emotions. Those things could make for an interesting read if Warren is given an appropiate solo. Kinda like what Mister Miracle is emulating if you get my connection.

I made a joke a while ago that Jean and Warren need to make an AA type club called this other me will never live it down co-starring Phoenix and Death. :P I viewed their storylines as two sides of the same coin. Even Angel had his Dark [insert subject] saga.

At this point they should retcon the blank slate Angel as Warren suffering a mental breakdown and regressing to the state of a child and having the Archangel that was found a literal persona split off from his body after his death. That way it could explain both their blank slates. They didn't do anything interesting with 05 Warren or Blank Slate Angel when it came to the consequences of DAS. Remender should of hijacked Angel to the Avengers at least we would of gotten some interesting interaction and less of Aaron's "meh" characterization. I knew what he was going for but it does a disservice to the character. Hippie Angel made people at least realize what made the Original interesting and it showed.

Well, I get the idea of using the Death persona as mental illness, but if the X-Men know that Warren is mentally ill, why would they not do some thing to help him. Instead they just sort of let him tag along on all of their adventures. I wouldn't let some one with Angel's obviously deadly psychological problems just wonder around with out any sort help.

If you are going to run with sort of story, than you almost have to make it a solo comic about Warren, as you suggested. But, Marvel doesn't give Angel solo comics or minis.

I do like how it leads to sad endings for him though.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well then again the other X-Men have cared little for Warren's feelings a time or two in the past, like when CC hooked Betsy and Neal up as wrong as it was and only happened because CC was leaving that book to start X-treme…

Warren hasn't been "right" in years and needs some time to be, just hoping that the whole horseman thing fixes him to a great degree, and Warren's only time of being anywhere near suicidal was after his wings were lost and he then got turned into Archangel all those years ago, also hoping that they don't have Warren try to play the sacrificial lamb in the end or something along those lines to stop Nate...

[Thievery]

Regardless of weather Warren is mentally ill or not, who do you suppose that Angel was talking to in Uncanny issue 1.

The most obvious choice seems to be Nate . He looks like the one who is Forming the new Horseman, based off of the character designs for N Nate could have reached out to take mental control of Warren to make him his Horseman. Or, Warren may not have even needed to be taken control of, if Nate promised him that it would lead to Apocalypse being captured or killed. This could also mean that Angel was already working for Nate. And Nate would be strong enough to capture Apocalypse, especially if he already had help from Angel or any of the other Horseman.

Another likely choice could be Legion, or a legion who has possessed Nate. Legion is known for mental instability, and this could reinforce the idea that Warren is still mentally ill because of the Archangel split personality. If Legions Horseman fail, Legion could be insane enough to try and start a new AoA. Or Legion could just be using Nate right from the start for some thing else, I guess.

Apocalypse may have called out to the Death personality to help him, only to have Nate or Legion intercept Warren along the way, and turn him against Apocalypse.


It could have been X. The last time that X had the X-Men fighting mind controlled enemies, Warren turned into Archangel and killed Lucifer. This could ty back into the Astonishing Annual, and any type of forshadowing of mental problems for Angel, if forshadowing was the purpose of that story. I guess that it could be possible that X was trying to call out to Angel again. This seems less likely to me, as I doubt that X would have Angel abandon the other X-Men during a battle. And X still seems to care about doing the right thing. And X doesn't strike me as the type who is mad enough to dress a new team of Horseman in biblical looking outfits that would expose X as being insane.

[Arachne]

No sign of Warren in Age of X-man. So is he dead or one of the spoiler characters in Prisoner X? Place your bets!

[Thievery]

No sign of Warren in Age of X-man. So is he dead or one of the spoiler characters in Prisoner X? Place your bets!

Damn, I just saw those covers when I logged in. My earlier post looks kind of stupid now.

I guess it depends on how much the issue 1 covers actually reveal. It's hard to say after only one group of covers.

I am still a pessimist as to weather or not Angel will die, so I am placing my bet on Angel being dead after the first Uncanny story line . After that my next guess would be that he may be a villain in the book that has Psylocke in it. I think that is the X-tremist comic.

Where did you find out that there will be spoiler characters in Prisoner X. Actually there are probably spoiler characters in all of the Age of X-Man comics.

[Rosebunse]

Angel hasn't really been shown prominently at all, which makes me think he dies early on, his role isn't that important, or he's just not being used because he isn't a "money maker" character or something. Or they're trolling us.

Edit: Actually, the absolute lack of any Angel at all has me a bit wondering. We see the other Horsemen, so where is Warren? Or Legion? Just killing him doesn't really make sense and it's been hinted thay this isn't going to be quite the bloodbath we thought it would be.

[Thievery]

Angel hasn't really been shown prominently at all, which makes me think he dies early on, his role isn't that important, or he's just not being used because he isn't a "money maker" character or something. Or they're trolling us.

Damn, Rosebunse, I counting on you to be the one to tell me that I was just being paranoid about Angel getting killed off. I really do think that he is going to die before Age of X-Man even starts.

I don't know about the idea of him not being used because he isn't a "money maker". Blob, Nature Girl, Maggot, and some of the other characters being featured aren't exactly money makers.

But, for some reason, I do get the feeling that Angel isn't all that well liked by the new X office. He really isn't talked about all that often.

I don't mind being trolled by the X-editors or writers. I kind of think that it's hilarious when they **** with fans that way. But, I wouldn't view leaving certain characters off of covers as trolling. I just think that it means that those characters wont be used or featured in that comic.
Or, in the case of Angel, he is being left off of covers because he has already been killed ,not do to some fun trolling.

[Izanami]

Warren is a desperate need of a revamp. So Rosebunse if you were to do a solo or storyline what would you do with Warren. Arch and I mostly lean with a gothic horror type vibe.

[Rosebunse]

Gothic horror is tempting, but since this is a comic, I would prefer something that really took advantage of the utter weirdness of the full Marvel setting.

Honestly, I would sort of want to team him up with Silver Surfer. Why? Because thanks to Remender's retcons and addidtions, Warren is technically a part of the Marvel cosmic hierarchy. At the far lower scale of it, but he's there.

And I feel like their situations aren't terribly dissimilar. They're both linked to someone they are in some ways grateful to, they love having fun with their powers, they're both sort of doing this fulltime, they're both very tragic abd they've each murdered lots of people.

The difference lies in that Galactus isn't quite the abusive, controlling, and evil jerk Apocalypse is. Galactus is much more genuine in respect for the Surfer, while Apocalypse just sort of treats everyone in his employ as a slave. Galactus is also far more aware of his place in the universe and does not relish it the way Apocalypse does.

Of course, I still would want something fun and silky, just with incredibly dark overtones lol

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well I'm guessing that some of the horsemen become baddies but some may just appear to be bad and Warren could fit either really...at least until he's freed from being controlled and back to his old self unless he was duped again by Nate offering to free him from the Death persona...which would then just look bad on Warren, still thinking that at the end of this they'll use Nate and Legion's abilities to rewrite the X-verse so to speak in one way or another...though again hoping that Warren doesn't die either...

[Izanami]

Gothic horror is tempting, but since this is a comic, I would prefer something that really took advantage of the utter weirdness of the full Marvel setting.

Honestly, I would sort of want to team him up with Silver Surfer. Why? Because thanks to Remender's retcons and addidtions, Warren is technically a part of the Marvel cosmic hierarchy. At the far lower scale of it, but he's there.

And I feel like their situations aren't terribly dissimilar. They're both linked to someone they are in some ways grateful to, they love having fun with their powers, they're both sort of doing this fulltime, they're both very tragic abd they've each murdered lots of people.

The difference lies in that Galactus isn't quite the abusive, controlling, and evil jerk Apocalypse is. Galactus is much more genuine in respect for the Surfer, while Apocalypse just sort of treats everyone in his employ as a slave. Galactus is also far more aware of his place in the universe and does not relish it the way Apocalypse does.

Of course, I still would want something fun and silky, just with incredibly dark overtones lol

I like this. I could see Squirrel Girl making an appearance somewhere down the line. I always felt that Warren works best outside the X-Men than within. Would like to see him team up with other Marvel heroes for once. Not to mention Archangel needs a bit of a revamp of the more compassionate variety. Death isn't always evil. It can be neutral and necessary.

[Thievery]

Gothic horror is tempting, but since this is a comic, I would prefer something that really took advantage of the utter weirdness of the full Marvel setting.

Honestly, I would sort of want to team him up with Silver Surfer. Why? Because thanks to Remender's retcons and addidtions, Warren is technically a part of the Marvel cosmic hierarchy. At the far lower scale of it, but he's there.

And I feel like their situations aren't terribly dissimilar. They're both linked to someone they are in some ways grateful to, they love having fun with their powers, they're both sort of doing this fulltime, they're both very tragic abd they've each murdered lots of people.

The difference lies in that Galactus isn't quite the abusive, controlling, and evil jerk Apocalypse is. Galactus is much more genuine in respect for the Surfer, while Apocalypse just sort of treats everyone in his employ as a slave. Galactus is also far more aware of his place in the universe and does not relish it the way Apocalypse does.

Of course, I still would want something fun and silky, just with incredibly dark overtones lol

Well, I don't believe that we have gotten a cosmic story before.

This was a nice job, Rosebunse, especially the part about Surfer and Angel being linked to space maters. Apocalypse both see's himself as being necessary for the greater good of humanity's survival, but he really is a complete bastard about it. He'd do anything to stave of a Celestial. Do the Celestials even exist anymore?

I have to admit that I don't know much about Galactus, and even less about the Silver Surfer. How many people has the Surfer killed? and were they all so that Galactus could eat planets? I just want to know so that I can draw a better picture of your story in my mind.

I'm not sure what a "fun and silky" story would mean however.
I'd probably be just be more interested in the dark undertones anyway, if I understand what you are saying properly.
Sorry that I don't have anything more to offer about your story, as I am tired, and actually managed to fall asleep while logged in .

Well I'm guessing that some of the horsemen become baddies but some may just appear to be bad and Warren could fit either really...at least until he's freed from being controlled and back to his old self unless he was duped again by Nate offering to free him from the Death persona...which would then just look bad on Warren, still thinking that at the end of this they'll use Nate and Legion's abilities to rewrite the X-verse so to speak in one way or another...though again hoping that Warren doesn't die either...

Yeah, if I am reading your post correctly, I don't want Angel to die or become a permanent villain either. I just think that he is going to end up becoming worm food before Age of X-Man even starts.

Really, and I think that I mentioned this in another post, but if Angel does live to be in an Age of X-Man story, his best bet might be to appear as a villain in the comic that Psylocke will be in. At least I think that that is what I said.

And if Angel decided to help Nate or Legion of his own free will, well, he would really look like **** then. If Warren abandoned Betsy and the other X-Me without being mind controlled, this could be the end of the Psylocke/Angel romance. Actually, I think that I may have said this in another post already, but I'm just to tired and lazy to go back and check if I am just repeating myself.

I hope that this post makes sense to any one who reads it.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't think that it would be the end of them as a couple, as from what we've seen him leaving wasn't his idea imho...

I meant that Warren could be playing both sides against each other, that he would have come to his senses and try to help the other X-characters but given his position he'd have to act the part of the villain to try and bring down either Nate or whatever he created...

Maybe it wasn't Warren that left but the other persona that took over and Warren wakes up later on wondering what happened...

Unless maybe in the book that Betsy is in there's more people on the team than is on the cover as we've seen Nate already fighting with Jean and the others...