Angel's Aerie: Warren Worthington appreciation

[Havok83]

Exactly when this issue takes place is up in the air as once X got through with Warren there was no split personality back in Soule's Astonishing series...so who knows...

The very first page tells us when this takes place

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well since X is around then Warren shouldn't have any split anything, as Astonishing took place over two days in comic time...

[Havok83]

Well since X is around then Warren shouldn't have any split anything, as Astonishing took place over two days in comic time...

And this clearly takes place after Soule's AXM run. nx01a posted an interesting theory which makes sense in context with the issue. Xavier never healed Warren. He set him out as a sleeper agent and is using him as a weapon, which we saw in this issue

[Heroine Addict]

The impression I got from the annual, is that Angel/Archangel's kinda like Hulk now, but not necessarily with a set trigger of anger, stress, or whatever. That he consciously keeps it at bay, and can allow it to come forth & be unleashed from his subconscious, by not suppressing it & just allowing it to take over.

[Izanami]

The impression I got from the annual, is that Angel/Archangel's kinda like Hulk now, but not necessarily with a set trigger of anger, stress, or whatever. That he consciously keeps it at bay, and can allow it to come forth & be unleashed from his subconscious, by not suppressing it & just allowing it to take over.

I like that better than going back to the monster unleashed werewolf style. It is better that way and would allow Warren to come to terms over his darker nature. If a writer goes with this idea we can finally have a Warren that is at peace with his darker tendencies and is in control of his actions while understanding the consequences of those actions. I don't want it to go back to a horror movie of demonic posession, its time h had a happy ending. Besides Archangel is never going to go away. He will always come back. This is the best incarnation we could have in the moment, just no more split personality.

Now towards speculation, I do see X creating his own team of X-Men to lead. Maybe we will have something like that after the uncanny relaunch?

[Thievery]

It made it seem as if Archangel was a split personality. Archangel killed Lucifer, not Warren, hence why Warren had no recollection of it

I could be wrong, but in X-Force issues, Warren would retain his memories of when he transformed into Archangel. So if he doesn't remember killing Lucifer than that would be a change. But, that last page was ambiguous, and Warren may remember everything at the end of this annual, including X and Lucifer. So you may be right again.

X would be evil enough to let Warren think he'd been cured but keep the Archangel personality in there... especially for situations like dealing with Lucifer.
I think Warren retains memories of X and Lucifer. The look at the end doesn't make sense unless he does and is happy that his other friends are happier than they were before.
And Archangel vs Lucifer was a bit on the nose but it worked.

X could be lying about having cured Warren, but I kind of doubt even X is that evil. I think that he's just a morally grey character, kind of like Magneto. X did rush of to help Beast when Lucifer had control of him. And I don't think X was in Lago just for the hell of it. I do think that he had good intentions in stopping Lucifer. I read the story as X seeing that the situation was out of hand, and could only be stopped with killing Lucifer, even if it meant killing the citizens of Lago.

And I don't think that X would only pretend to cure Warren for no other reason that it would mean that Archangel could take control of Warren, and potentially kill even more people than Lucifer was about to. And at the end of Soule's run, X gave Warren the choice to be either Warren, Angel, or Archangel, whichever one he needed at the time. So this is what I think happened in the story. Warren decided that he needed to be Archangel in order to kill Lucifer. Meaning that Warren is once again willing to kill if he thinks if he thinks that it is necessary.

You are most definitely right about Archangel vs Lucifer being a bit on the nose. A story about an archangel fighting a devil who had taken over a group of towns people, tricked them into thinking it was giving them what they wanted, and that their would be no price to pay for it's assistance.

The impression I got from the annual, is that Angel/Archangel's kinda like Hulk now, but not necessarily with a set trigger of anger, stress, or whatever. That he consciously keeps it at bay, and can allow it to come forth & be unleashed from his subconscious, by not suppressing it & just allowing it to take over.

Yeah, this is what I am starting to hope for as well. At first I kind of thought that Warren being able to switch to Archangel at will and control him sort of defeated the purpose of the Archangel story. Warren being able to control Archangel is better than the tired Jekyll and Hyde story that Archangel was stuck in. And Hulk is already doing that story any way.

[Thievery]

I like that better than going back to the monster unleashed werewolf style. It is better that way and would allow Warren to come to terms over his darker nature. If a writer goes with this idea we can finally have a Warren that is at peace with his darker tendencies and is in control of his actions while understanding the consequences of those actions. I don't want it to go back to a horror movie of demonic posession, its time h had a happy ending. Besides Archangel is never going to go away. He will always come back. This is the best incarnation we could have in the moment, just no more split personality.

Now towards speculation, I do see X creating his own team of X-Men to lead. Maybe we will have something like that after the uncanny relaunch?

I forgot to add a response to this in my previous one, so I'll just make a late response.

I like the idea of Warren controlling his Archangel personality, and not undergoing the werewolf type transformation that you described.

However, I don't like the idea of Warren getting a happy ending. I'm not saying that I want him to die, because I don't. He is my favorite character. I just think he works better as one of those characters who things don't usually go right for. Some people just don't get to be happy in life.. And he's kind of become a killer who seems to be going down a different path than most of his friends. Maybe he even starts to become even more isolated from them. So no happiness for him there.

As for X forming his own team, I guess that I could see it happening. He'd probably get some characters like Archangel, Psylocke, Marrow, or Frenzy. People who are willing to get their hands dirty. And ones that would kill, the way Warren killed Lucifer.

I still kind of think that X may be the type of character that drifts in and out of stories, pulls some shady ****, and than mind wipes people to cover his tracks. I don't know why he would need Psylocke to remember that he is around to keep him honest if he is going to have his own team. Unless he is planning to have a team that he mindwipes at the end of every story.

[Izanami]

I disagree a character can still get a "Happy Ending" and still have things not go right. That is reminiscent of life. Some days are great other times they are not. They are just a serious of roller coasters. One of the downfalls of Post Archangel is that he is far too broody that there is nothing interesting there besides anger and misery. Archangel needs to evolve beyond that if he is to survive. Allowing Warren to control a personification of his darker emotions, instincts, and being would allow for that if a writer chooses to pursue this route. That doesn't mean he won't have challenges or be happy all the time. He needs a nice balance of both even if the negative side is stronger than the other. Besides when we do see him happy and have something nice for once, it shines more.

You do have to remember Speculation is theories without any evidence. There is a reason why none of it goes nowhere when it appears in the forums. There is no use in correcting it since it takes care of itself once things have been announced. They are just meant for coversation and fun. You all take these things too seriously.

I feel like X is testing certain X-Men while being secretive. We don't know what the X-books will look like after uncanny in November. So let the fun commence.

[Izanami]

I've noticed that Angel always gets a bad rep in a lot of media. They just have trouble knowing how to effectively use Archangel similarly to how they are unable to use Storm outside of just thunderbolts. They always fail to capture the ferocity and swift precision of the character. One area that I thought they would excel was video games, but that turned out to be a letdown too. I believe part of it was the limitations of the time and the lack of creativity when it came to winged characters which, as much as it hurts, can be excused. There has been a significant improvement in his use and design over the years. However, I do feel that they still lack in certain areas. The best version of the character that I've come across is Contest of Champions. I feel that could be a great base to start off from and perhaps down the road could be very much improved. I believe the technology is there now to have a 3D version of Archangel that can use all of his abilities that we've come to see in the comics. With the Disney merger, there may be hope for an X-Men video game that would allow for creative uses of several characters, Warren being one of them. For an example of this and one of the most difficult bosses of the game that is well deserved, look no more than to Sigrun from God of War III. How many of Archangel's movesets can you spot? It took me days to beat her.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Now that Betsy is apparently English again I wonder how their first meeting will go and such...

[Havok83]

She never stopped being English

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I know that I meant fully English with the new body...and using English and Asian have long been easy ways to tell the two different versions of Betsy apart is all...

[Thievery]

I disagree a character can still get a "Happy Ending" and still have things not go right. That is reminiscent of life. Some days are great other times they are not. They are just a serious of roller coasters. One of the downfalls of Post Archangel is that he is far too broody that there is nothing interesting there besides anger and misery. Archangel needs to evolve beyond that if he is to survive. Allowing Warren to control a personification of his darker emotions, instincts, and being would allow for that if a writer chooses to pursue this route. That doesn't mean he won't have challenges or be happy all the time. He needs a nice balance of both even if the negative side is stronger than the other. Besides when we do see him happy and have something nice for once, it shines more.

You do have to remember Speculation is theories without any evidence. There is a reason why none of it goes nowhere when it appears in the forums. There is no use in correcting it since it takes care of itself once things have been announced. They are just meant for coversation and fun. You all take these things too seriously.

I feel like X is testing certain X-Men while being secretive. We don't know what the X-books will look like after uncanny in November. So let the fun commence.

Sorry, I keep forgetting to respond to this one. Yeah, I get that it is harmless fan speculation. I engage in harmless fan speculation all the time myself. Just for fun, you know. I just like stories about Warren where he doesn't get the happy ending. But that's just my opinion. Sorry if I came across as to serious or obnoxious towards other peoples opinions.

We were having discussions abut who would make for a great team up story earlier in this thread and their were some really good ideas.

Does any one have any good ideas for what would make for an occasional happy ending story for Warren? Or even something that would bring some joy to his life?

As for X testing certain X-Men, perhaps he could recruit Kwannon now that she has returned. She could be a morally grey character that could fit in with his less savory missions. And He wouldn't need Psylocke to be part of his shady activities with Kwannon around. Psylocke seems as if she might want to go back to being a character that doesn't kill anymore, or help people like Magneto. She could be the check on X who makes sure that he doesn't go to far, just as X intended.

[Heroine Addict]

I disagree a character can still get a "Happy Ending" and still have things not go right. That is reminiscent of life. Some days are great other times they are not. They are just a serious of roller coasters. One of the downfalls of Post Archangel is that he is far too broody that there is nothing interesting there besides anger and misery. Archangel needs to evolve beyond that if he is to survive. Allowing Warren to control a personification of his darker emotions, instincts, and being would allow for that if a writer chooses to pursue this route. That doesn't mean he won't have challenges or be happy all the time. He needs a nice balance of both even if the negative side is stronger than the other. Besides when we do see him happy and have something nice for once, it shines more. ...

Yes, it's more than past time he get over his Archangel woes, IMO. Accept it, control it, and move on, I say. Also advocate him doing something that doesn't involve Psylocke, or any of her associated doppelgängers as well, for a change.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I'd rather Betsy not be someone "check" again, that never goes well and it always fails or is just then ignored for most of the run, if anything for Warren Betsy's change could give them a fresh start of sorts and who better to be her sounding board, and maybe more, when needed than Warren...