Angel's Aerie: Warren Worthington appreciation

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I just meant that over the years Warren and his wings have been portrayed by many as him having a weak power compared to the other X-characters...

[Izanami]

I just meant that over the years Warren and his wings have been portrayed by many as him having a weak power compared to the other X-characters...

How does this relate to him teaming up with the thing...?
Back then warren was one of the few x-men who teamed up with others on a regular basis and the first to do so with Iron Man.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

It doesn't have anything to do with that team up and I never claimed that it did...

[Thievery]

When Gold ends, I want to see Bobby and Warren co-lead the X-men if Jean doesnt get a promotion. Actually the three originals as pillars of the X-men could be fun. Jean as the face, Bobby as headmaster and Warren as field leader. Beast already will be a leader over in AXM so it would be fitting for all O4

This is just a guess on my part, but I don't think Warren will be in a book after Gold ends. The writers and editors have confirmed if their are plans for a character when they are asked about them. Whenever one of them is asked about Archangel, they don't give an answer. So I think that Warren will be off to comic limbo for a while. I hope that I am wrong though, and I like your idea.

@ ArchAngelSliver it's from marvel's two in one where the thing teams up with different superheroes every issue. In this one it's angel back when he wasn't the butt of jokes or considered useless.

Thank you for the info.

You misunderstand logan, back then a character having wings/flying was not perceived as weak or lame. It was considered a strong or amazing power. During that time many characters that are now obscure by today's standards (red raven, or peregrine) had wings and flight as their base power. due to power creep they are no longer seen as strong despite being everyone's wish of a super power in the real world.

Yeah, Warren's power to fly isn't very useful when you have characters like Storm, Rouge, Monet, or Magneto around. He's really most useful when he has his metal wings that fire feather blades. It gives him a power to use besides flight. Being Archangel also make his personality more interesting than when he is just regular Angel.

Plus I just like Warren's visual as Archangel way better than when he is just plain old Angel.

This is just my opinion. of course.

[Izanami]

Yeah, Warren's power to fly isn't very useful when you have characters like Storm, Rouge, Monet, or Magneto around. He's really most useful when he has his metal wings that fire feather blades. It gives him a power to use besides flight. Being Archangel also make his personality more interesting than when he is just regular Angel.

Back in the 60's and 70's flying was a powerful thing to have but as time went on and characters had them as secondary powers it was no longer seen as useful. He was considered one of the strongest members back then.

[Sutekh]

Yeah, Warren's power to fly isn't very useful when you have characters like Storm, Rouge, Monet, or Magneto around.

Well, yeah, but back in the day, when he was the *only* mutant hero who could fly, it was a pretty cool thing (and remains an amazing visual). Starting with the All-New, All-Different crew, which included Storm, Banshee and a hot second of Sunfire, two of whom had 'mutant power to do X, plus I can fly for no ***damned reason at all'), Angel's wings became less unique and amazing.

The New Mutants walked it back a bit, with only one flier (Cannonball) who was not a very controlled or graceful flier, at that. Several iterations of X-Factor and X-Force have also gotten by with few or no fliers, and Angel's 'weak' power might have had a chance to shine, there.

And now we've got villains like Magneto, designed with power-sets that allow them to face down an entire team, or Martian Manhunter-wannabe's like Monet, who arbitrarily has a half-dozen unrelated powers, or Rogue, who has a mutant power that she spend a couple decades not learning how to control and use, because she was hopped up on non-mutant powers she'd stolen from Carol Danvers... So, yeah, thanks to a perfect storm of questionable decisions over the years, Angel is not quite as amazing as he used to be. (Although I do love it when a writer decides to play with him getting underestimated, such as his punking the entire Thunderbolts team with his 'weak' power, in the pages of their own book, when they tried to car-jack his Champions Cruiser.)

Plus I just like Warren's visual as Archangel way better than when he is just plain old Angel.

The metal wings are super cool, I'll give you that! (I'm less impressed with the blue skin. Between the Beast, Nightcrawler, and occasional guest-appearances by Mystique, I have no idea what's up with the X-offices and mutants with blue skin, or the Guardians writers and team-members like Drax, Gamora, Mantis and Bug, with green skin, for that matter. Are we color-coordinating our teams now?)

[Havok83]

Back in the 60's and 70's flying was a powerful thing to have but as time went on and characters had them as secondary powers it was no longer seen as useful. He was considered one of the strongest members back then.

I wouldn’t say powerful but it was more impressive

[Havok83]

Jean vs Warren. I cant believe he attacked her! Loved that she got him all the way together and called him out

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well Warren could make rash decisions and then regret them later on...

[Thievery]

Jean vs Warren. I cant believe he attacked her! Loved that she got him all the way together and called him out

I've honestly never really agreed with this scene. Warren's wings had previously been shown to have their own consciousness. They had fought on their own when Warren had been knocked unconscious. And in another issue, Warren wasn't paying attention and the wings saved Archangel from crashing into a plane. So I always looked at this as a retcon.

Of course, Warren's story was re-retconned by Kyle/Yost when they brought Archangel back as a completely separate personality that caused Warren to suffer from a bloodlust. I just wish that the story hadn't been taken so far that Warren became Apocalypse and a psychotic villain.

Actually, if anything this story makes Jean look bad, in hindsight at least. She was clearly wrong about Warren having a bloodlust and that he couldn't always control his wings. Though I guess you could say that Warren's Archangel personality was still buried so deeply that Jean just didn't realise that it was there.

As far as Warren attacking Jean despite having been in love with her, well perhaps he didn't love her that much after all. That or you could go with the Kyle/Yost ret-con and say that Warren was loosing control in that moment.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Yeah his wings cut that guys head off and Warren didn't even know that he was there and was surprised that it happened so they had a mind of their own...and with Yost and Kyle they changed it from Warren being back to his old feathered wings truly to that all just being a sham and the feathers being just the next step of what Apocalypse did to him as the feathers were techno organic or something...hated that bit and the split personality crap as it's hung around with Warren ever since...

[Thievery]

Yeah his wings cut that guys head off and Warren didn't even know that he was there and was surprised that it happened so they had a mind of their own...and with Yost and Kyle they changed it from Warren being back to his old feathered wings truly to that all just being a sham and the feathers being just the next step of what Apocalypse did to him as the feathers were techno organic or something...hated that bit and the split personality crap as it's hung around with Warren ever since...

Yeah, I hate the split personality crap now also. And I actually thought that it was neat at first. But now any writer could come along and use it to turn Warren back into a villain at any time.

If you are referring to the scene with Kamikaze during X-Cutioner's Song, I don't believe that Warren's wings killed Kamikaze on their own. Kamikaze tried to sneak up on Warren, and Warren changed directions when Kamikaze charged him, and the be-heading was an accident, if I remember correctly.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Sadly it's probably going to follow him the rest of his days, yeah it was Kamikaze, I think that maybe Warren felt that someone was behind him but before he could do more than turn a bit his wings acted for him and lashed out without his clear intent for them to do so...

[WallStreeter]

I've honestly never really agreed with this scene. Warren's wings had previously been shown to have their own consciousness. They had fought on their own when Warren had been knocked unconscious. And in another issue, Warren wasn't paying attention and the wings saved Archangel from crashing into a plane. So I always looked at this as a retcon.

Of course, Warren's story was re-retconned by Kyle/Yost when they brought Archangel back as a completely separate personality that caused Warren to suffer from a bloodlust. I just wish that the story hadn't been taken so far that Warren became Apocalypse and a psychotic villain.

Actually, if anything this story makes Jean look bad, in hindsight at least. She was clearly wrong about Warren having a bloodlust and that he couldn't always control his wings. Though I guess you could say that Warren's Archangel personality was still buried so deeply that Jean just didn't realise that it was there.

As far as Warren attacking Jean despite having been in love with her, well perhaps he didn't love her that much after all. That or you could go with the Kyle/Yost ret-con and say that Warren was loosing control in that moment.

Except she wasn't wrong. She told him to keep it in perspective. If Jean gave into having temper tantrums like that she would be blowing up stars. Warren's Archangel personality at it's worse is no Dark Phoenix.

She was telling him to pull himself together and control himself. Which, after she talked to him like this he successfully did until Wolfbane tore off his wings, and the technoorganic wings grew back and made him into Archangel again.

He was angry at her and he attacked her because she told him painful things he did not want to hear. It was completely irrational and without thought.

[Thievery]

Except she wasn't wrong. She told him to keep it in perspective. If Jean gave into having temper tantrums like that she would be blowing up stars. Warren's Archangel personality at it's worse is no Dark Phoenix.

She was telling him to pull himself together and control himself. Which, after she talked to him like this he successfully did until Wolfbane tore off his wings, and the technoorganic wings grew back and made him into Archangel again.

He was angry at her and he attacked her because she told him painful things he did not want to hear. It was completely irrational and without thought.

I'm going to disagree with this. Sorry. Jean wasn't just telling Warren to pull himself togather. If she was I would agree with her. Instead she is telling Angel that he doesn't suffer from any form of bloodlust, and that his wings were never acting of their own free will. There were plenty of stories that showed Warren's wings acting of their own free will.

And like I said, I think that the story only makes Jean look wrong in hindsight, as it happens before the Kyle/Yost retcon. Which undoes the attempted retcon stating that Warren's wings never had their own consciousness, which is shown in the Morlock tunnel scenes posted above. Those stories clearly showed Warren as having a split personality. And it's not like Jean was the only one who didn't figure it out. Xavier,Psylocke, and Emma also didn't know.

If you feel that Warren attacked Jean out of anger, I don't have a problem with that. Angel is frequently written as having a short temper. I was merely trying to offer the idea that it was Angel's temper combined with the Apocalypse programming that caused Warren to lash out at a person he claimed to love. Sorry that I wasn't more clear.