Angel's Aerie: Warren Worthington appreciation

[Thievery]

Thanks. The whole face and neck were too wide, but the photo actually seems to have minimized that, a bit. I was going for a Mucha look with the hair. That much came out all right.

I'm planning mohawk Warren for next week.

Ah, I understand now. I still think your picture looks good. Your Gambit looked nice also.

Actually Arch my laugh was more about you maybe agreeing with me about something...it's begun...though yeah who knows, maybe Warren and Betsy could sit down and have a nice long chat about recent developments between them, after I'm guessing the two groups have to fight first before then working together later on...again hoping that the tattoo's don't stick around, don't like the mohawk on Warren...

After seeing the Age of X-Man poster preview thing for what happens after the disassembled arc, I'm not sure if their is going to be much to talk about between Warren and Betsy in regards to Warren becoming a Horseman again. It looks like the entire team of X-Men may end up getting an alternate reality makeover from Jesus Nate. Maybe with some help with Legion.

After the story in X-Men Black Magneto, I was sure that Apocalypse was going to take Nate's body over and use it to commit acts of evil, or at the very least try and create some form of utopian future. Now I'm not so sure any more. The Horseman of Salvation may end up still being Nate's good guy team, while Pixie, Glob, Rockslide, and Armor end up with Apocalypse which we talked about earlier. They could go over to Apocalypse's side to save them selves from the jet crash that we have seen in preview art.
Maybe we get some more clues from the comic-con.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

We'll probably get an Apocalypse is too bad and Nate is too good, that real life should be somewhere in the middle at the end or Nate will either go bad or that the road to hell being paved with good intentions kind of thing, with W and B stuck somewhere in the middle, the reality thing who knows, maybe the opposite of AoA in some ways...

[Thievery]

Yeah, I think that that Nate could up doing the whole road to hell being paved with good intentions thing. But it's still possible that I am wrong.

It's kind of easy to see how Archangel would go for a Salvation story that is meant to usher in a Utopia type story, but I'm less certain that Blob or Omega Red would sign up for this type of thing. Well not the 616 versions, unless they really are after some kind of personal salvation for themselves.

I'm sill not certain that Psylocke and Warren take the same side, at least if these are the 616 versions. I don't see Psylocke signing up for a utopia at any cost type of story. Unless she is forced by Nate that is. And I know that we keep going over this, but I would kind of hope that they aren't. I still think that the two of them could use some stories about something besides Psylocke trying to help Archangel overcome his past as a Horseman. Time for them to get some new stories that don't always involve each other.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well I'm not wanting that to be the driving force for them either, I just meant that she'd be the one to snap him out of it and unless he'd done something really bad he'd more just feel stupid and used again and she could probably have a few things to say about it...I just don't see why they can't be together and still get new stories, just move them both forward, maybe Nate takes control over them more and more as they go...

[Thievery]

Well I'm not wanting that to be the driving force for them either, I just meant that she'd be the one to snap him out of it and unless he'd done something really bad he'd more just feel stupid and used again and she could probably have a few things to say about it...I just don't see why they can't be together and still get new stories, just move them both forward, maybe Nate takes control over them more and more as they go...

I really feel as if we are taking this topic of conversation in circles.

I agree that I don't want Archangel involved in more Horseman stories. It's grown tiresome, especially since Cullen Bunn has come up with the great new story with Archangel taking care of the Sleeper mutants. It gave Warren a chance to show some more leadership qualities. And Psylocke constantly dealing with Warren's Horseman issues has grown equally tiresome.

But, if we are to get more Horseman stories, I am interested in the New X-Men characters who appear to have become Apocalypse Horseman on an upcoming cover of Uncanny X-Men, especially Pixie. If Pixie has become a Horseman, she would seem to be Archangel's opposite number. Archangel has the Angel imagery going for his character, while Pixie appears to have a more demonic look to her possible Horseman status. Plus she has some magic stories in her background. It would be the classic Archangel vs. Demon story.

[Thievery]

Well, seeing as how Magneto was confirmed as being one of the Horseman of Salvation, I guess that it is now safe to assume that the Horseman are probably under some form of mind control or are alternate reality characters. The X-books have been going out of their way to make Maggs a villain again, so I have a hard time seeing them let him join a good guy team so soon. I guess he could have his own reason for joining the Horseman, but I cant see him fooling Nate.

Lets assume that these Horseman are 616 characters under mind control. I didn't want to read another Psylocke/Archangel Horseman story, but it looks like that is what we are going to get. Does any one have a new idea as to how they can solve this latest Psylocke/brainwashed Archangel story without repeating all of the old ones?

And this is just for fun speculation, so please don't take anything personally if any one chooses to play along and answer this question, and offers an idea that you don't like.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I think that they then should stay away from anything like that Warren would be torn between his love for Betsy and his duty to Nate or something along those lines, staying away from that there's two psyche's in his head and she has to be there to help him manage the two, maybe she'd have enough energy left over from Styxx to help Warren purge himself of one of the psyche's and leave him as fully Warren, his own man again and then maybe go forward with the pair, together and equally leading a new group...

[Havok83]

Yawn, another Warren as a horseman, not in control of himself with Psylocke in to save him. Im sick of these stories whenever they get together

[Thievery]

I think that they then should stay away from anything like that Warren would be torn between his love for Betsy and his duty to Nate or something along those lines, staying away from that there's two psyche's in his head and she has to be there to help him manage the two, maybe she'd have enough energy left over from Styxx to help Warren purge himself of one of the psyche's and leave him as fully Warren, his own man again and then maybe go forward with the pair, together and equally leading a new group...

I guess that Psylocke using Styxx to purge Warren of the Horseman influence could work, but that's really similar to the Psylocke using the Life Seed story that's already been used. I was thinking that maybe we could get some new ideas for a resolution to this. Some thing besides Psylocke saves Angel from Horseman mental control.

Yawn, another Warren as a horseman, not in control of himself with Psylocke in to save him. Im sick of these stories whenever they get together

Yeah, that's how I feel also, but it looks like that is what we will be getting. I'm just hoping that if we are getting another Angel is possessed story again that we would also get different way to end the story besides Psylocke frees Archangel of mental control.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

They could always do the old he thinks that she's died or that he killed her and that snaps him out of it like it was back when he was first Archangel and he thought that Bobby was dead...maybe Warren wants to break free but he's not strong enough and Betsy lends him the extra bit of help that he needs, besides it's not like she doesn't have a piece of his soul already...

[Thievery]

They could always do the old he thinks that she's died or that he killed her and that snaps him out of it like it was back when he was first Archangel and he thought that Bobby was dead...maybe Warren wants to break free but he's not strong enough and Betsy lends him the extra bit of help that he needs, besides it's not like she doesn't have a piece of his soul already...

Well alright about the first idea I guess. The idea that Warren snaps out of mind control because Psylocke tricks him into thinking that he kills her is just like with Iceman, but I guess that I only asked about old Psylocke/Archangel stories. But, it's still not a new idea.

The Crimson Dawn idea is kind of interesting, and it makes use of old continuity, but it's still pretty close to the way that Psylocke used the Life seed to free Warren from Apocalypse/Archangel. And it is still another Psylocke saves Warren from Horseman mental control story.

I'm not trying to criticize your ideas Logan, but they aren't really new story endings for Psylocke/Archangel Horseman drama. It's just that they are still Psylocke saves Warren from mental control endings.

And I know that I look a little bad for not offering ideas of my own so far. It's just that every time that I come up with an idea that I do like, it ends up becoming a little to close to an already used Psylocke/Angel story. But, I will come up with some thing.

[Rosebunse]

What if Warren doesn't actually need saving in this one?

I just want a story where Warren, fed up with everyone screwing him over, tells Apocalypse to shove it, gives Betsy a Big Damn Kiss, and leaves. Just flies away and goes on vacation. Or gets some sort of good cosmic Jon as a reward for his years of suffering.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well to me allying himself with Betsy and getting more than a kiss from her and going forward with them together, maybe leading their own team, or going on a vacation with her would be something of a reward...

[Izanami]

What if Warren doesn't actually need saving in this one?

I just want a story where Warren, fed up with everyone screwing him over, tells Apocalypse to shove it, gives Betsy a Big Damn Kiss, and leaves. Just flies away and goes on vacation. Or gets some sort of good cosmic Jon as a reward for his years of suffering.

I like that. For once he does deserve a good ending before being horribly tortured in whatever upcoming event makes a superheroes life a miserable existence. We don't know much about the next chapter yet and at times fans do over react. Sometimes covers do deceive the audience so that they have to buy the issue when it comes out. I believe this will be similar to Age of X in some way before the reset button hits. So I am catiously optimistic.

[Thievery]

What if Warren doesn't actually need saving in this one?

I think that some of us are speculating that Warren needs saving because it does seem as if he is under mind control. Magneto is also one of Jesus Nate's (or Legion Nate's) Horseman. Marvel has been going out of their way to make sure that Magneto is one of the out right bad guys again. So it seems a little doubtful that Marvel would have Magneto sign up for anything that makes him a good guy of his own free will. That's why I think Warren is acting under some form of mind control

And now for my harmless fan speculation idea that doesn't require Psylocke to save Archangel from Horseman influence. It's not very creative, but I would have Warren save Psylocke from mind control this time. If the Age of X-Men story line covers can be believed, it would seem as though all of the X-Men are going to end up under Nate's control. So I would have Angel brake free of Nate's control first and he could save Psylocke this time. Like I said, it's not actually very creative, as all it does is reverse the way Psylocke/Archangel Horseman stories usually go, but it's the best that I can come up with. And it really does rely on the covers not being a fake-out about the X-Men coming under Nate's control.

I like that. For once he does deserve a good ending before being horribly tortured in whatever upcoming event makes a superheroes life a miserable existence. We don't know much about the next chapter yet and at times fans do over react. Sometimes covers do deceive the audience so that they have to buy the issue when it comes out. I believe this will be similar to Age of X in some way before the reset button hits. So I am catiously optimistic.

Archangel should never receive a happy ending, nor does he deserve one. All of his stories should be one endless series of torture, pain, and mutilation .

I would be happy if this Horseman story was just a take on Age of X, and then led to a reset, as long as Warren were to retain his blue skin and metal wings. And I would still like to see a story where Warren returns to Tibet to become the Sleeper mutants guardian for a little while. It's the best new story that Warren has received in a while. That's just my opinion.


As for some type of temporary happy ending, I still like the idea of Warren and Dani ending up to gather, even if it is most likely to never happen in a comic. That could bring Warren some type of happiness before the next round of events happen that causes super heroes' life to become a miserable existence. Now I know that it isn't likely to happen, what with Moonstar having been infected with the T O virus. It seems from interviews that Dani may suffer some sort of long term complications from it. But, I still think it would be interesting to read.