Pre-Flashpoint Superman; Was it that bad?

[Doctor Know]

To the OP. Pre-Flashpoint Supes had some major clunkers before New52 came and made him moderately interesting again.

"Reign of Doomsday" was mixed. I'd say avoid. (more Doomday villain decay)

"The Black Ring" which covered the death of Lex Luthor was intriguing and a nice follow up to Blackest Night. It gave us a look in a Lex's perception of himself but it's brought down towards the end when it's revealed it ties in to "Reign of Doomsday". Ick

"Grounded" People have already ripped this series a new one in this thread. I have nothing to add.

"Brainiac"/"New Krypton"/"Last Stand of New Krypton"/"War of the Supermen": was 2 years (starting in 2008-ending in 2010) of building up a grand story, only to be pissed away by James Robinson when he replaced Geoff Johns for "War of the Supermen". 100,00 Krytponians killed in Robinson's 100 minute war/restore the status quo before JMS takes over the comic next. I'm still pissed about that.

The above comic series are what plagued Superman pre-Flashpoint. By the time New52 came I was relieved. Grant Morrison's run on Action Comics Superman and Geoff Jonh's JLA is all I care about with regards to Nu52 Superman.

If you want some good tales starring the Man of Steel, I'll list you some.
Man of Steel by John Byrne. 8 volumes available on paperbacks from his 1986-1988 run.
Superman Birthright by Mark Waid
(The above two comics had many of their themes lifted and used for Zack Snyder's film Man of Steel)
All Star Superman: Grant Morrison
JLA Earth 2 by Grant Morrison
Action Comics Superman Vol 1-3: Grant Morrison
Superman for All Season: Jeph Loeb
Superman Red Son: Mark Millar
Superman For Tomorrow: Brian Azzerello
Superman Secret Origin: Geoff Johns
Superman Last Son: Geoff Johns
Superman and the Legion of Superheroes : Geoff Johns
Superman Brainiac (skip New Krytpon that follows): Geoff Johns
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow: Alan Moore
Superman Earth One vol 1-2: JMS (way better than his "Grounded" nonsense.)

[Joe Acro]

"Brainiac"/"New Krypton"/"Last Stand of New Krypton"/"War of the Supermen": was 2 years (starting in 2008-ending in 2010) of building up a grand story, only to be pissed away by James Robinson when he replaced Geoff Johns for "War of the Supermen". 100,00 Krytponians killed in Robinson's 100 minute war/restore the status quo before JMS takes over the comic next. I'm still pissed about that.

I wouldn't place the blame on Robinson. He clearly had plans for where he wanted to go with the title that got squelched by "War of the Supermen", as evidenced by how he wrapped up the Mon-El story, and how he came back to a few of those ideas in his Shade mini.

I do agree, though, that it was unsatisfactory conclusion. I really enjoyed the buildup, and thought the World of Krypton mini series was one of the best written Superman stories we'd gotten in a while.

[oldschoolfan]

It's generally not as bad as it's stereotyped, but it really did get bad a lot of the time. The big standouts were Geoff Johns' run on Action and, less well-known but far better (and sadly uncollected), Joe Casey's run on Adventures of Superman. But Byrne's...alterations...and well meaning but cookie cutterish work by the likes of Dan Jurgens left him bland as hell most of the time.

I don't see Jurgens work on Superman that way at all. Some really great stories were told with some other really talented people in the 90's by Jurgens. I really don't agree with those that say that Post Crisis Superman was bad.....it was the reason I came back after Denny ONeal left in the Bronze age.

[oldschoolfan]

To the OP. Pre-Flashpoint Supes had some major clunkers before New52 came and made him moderately interesting again.

"Reign of Doomsday" was mixed. I'd say avoid. (more Doomday villain decay)

"The Black Ring" which covered the death of Lex Luthor was intriguing and a nice follow up to Blackest Night. It gave us a look in a Lex's perception of himself but it's brought down towards the end when it's revealed it ties in to "Reign of Doomsday". Ick

"Grounded" People have already ripped this series a new one in this thread. I have nothing to add.

"Brainiac"/"New Krypton"/"Last Stand of New Krypton"/"War of the Supermen": was 2 years (starting in 2008-ending in 2010) of building up a grand story, only to be pissed away by James Robinson when he replaced Geoff Johns for "War of the Supermen". 100,00 Krytponians killed in Robinson's 100 minute war/restore the status quo before JMS takes over the comic next. I'm still pissed about that.

The above comic series are what plagued Superman pre-Flashpoint. By the time New52 came I was relieved. Grant Morrison's run on Action Comics Superman and Geoff Jonh's JLA is all I care about with regards to Nu52 Superman.

If you want some good tales starring the Man of Steel, I'll list you some.
Man of Steel by John Byrne. 8 volumes available on paperbacks from his 1986-1988 run.
Superman Birthright by Mark Waid
(The above two comics had many of their themes lifted and used for Zack Snyder's film Man of Steel)
All Star Superman: Grant Morrison
JLA Earth 2 by Grant Morrison
Action Comics Superman Vol 1-3: Grant Morrison
Superman for All Season: Jeph Loeb
Superman Red Son: Mark Millar
Superman For Tomorrow: Brian Azzerello
Superman Secret Origin: Geoff Johns
Superman Last Son: Geoff Johns
Superman and the Legion of Superheroes : Geoff Johns
Superman Brainiac (skip New Krytpon that follows): Geoff Johns
Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow: Alan Moore
Superman Earth One vol 1-2: JMS (way better than his "Grounded" nonsense.)

Yes! Superman: Earth One vol 1-2 were very good and way better than "Grounded". Grounded should have been a four issue story tops. And then there should have been some stories of Superman in the Fortress of Solidarity! I still think that idea has some good stories in it....

[DochaDocha]

Not canon, but this story that came out during the period in question needs more love, amirite?

[misslane]

To go back to Batman's hyperbolic accusation that the last time Superman inspired anyone was when he was dead, I've been digging through Action Comics circa 1994-2004 to find out how close Batman got to the truth. So far, I've found at least a dozen examples of Superman inspiring people.

Here's a few:

[Doctor Know]

I will add Kurt Buisek's "Secret Identity" as a good read.
His run on Superman i didn't care for. "Up Up and Away", "Back in Action", "Camelot Falls", "The 3rd Kryptonian", "Shadows Linger", and "Redemption" ranged from poor to meh with me.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I will add Kurt Buisek's "Secret Identity" as a good read.
His run on Superman i didn't care for. "Up Up and Away", "Back in Action", "Camelot Falls", "The 3rd Kryptonian", "Shadows Linger", and "Redemption" ranged from poor to meh with me.

I recall "Back in Action" and "The 3rd Kryptonian" being kinda bleh, but I thought "Up Up and Away" was fantastic.

[Kid A]

I will add Kurt Buisek's "Secret Identity" as a good read.
His run on Superman i didn't care for. "Up Up and Away", "Back in Action", "Camelot Falls", "The 3rd Kryptonian", "Shadows Linger", and "Redemption" ranged from poor to meh with me.

Yeah ironically his best Superman work, Secret Identity and sections of Astro City, don't actually have Superman in it.

[Sacred Knight]

I kinda felt that was the deal with Cornell too. Although I feel his Lex Luthor arc is overrated, it was decently written. Once he got to actually write Superman it was really underwhelming. Granted the fact the story was a messy mandate didn't help, but that aside his voice for Superman was just off.

[dupersuper]

Not canon, but this story that came out during the period in question needs more love, amirite?

You are not.

[Flying Tiger Comics]

Surely no one can forget Superman and the 99? It was like a time warped Superman comic from 2025.

[Kuwagaton]

Can't find anything on that one, really. But "At Earth's End" does seem kind of interesting.

"Camelot Falls" was okay aside from being a strong example of Superman's Post-Crisis insecurity.

[misslane]

"Camelot Falls" was okay aside from being a strong example of Superman's Post-Crisis insecurity.

How so? From my recollection, he's informed that he and his fellow heroes' heroic efforts would ultimately doom the world, which is a solid catalyst for introspection. And while he does wrestle with the implications of that, ultimately he chooses to be hopeful and to affirm who he is and what he does by continuing to protect Earth.

[Kuwagaton]

I remember it being Superman in particular. Then he wrestled with it for like four issues. I think I would have been a little annoyed if I followed the issues as they came out.

For Tomorrow also took way too long to come around, but in the end I think they were both good stories.