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  1. #31
    Incredible Member The Odd Man's Avatar
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    I love that Hawkman isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with people who could literally rip his wings off and feed them to him.


  2. #32
    Hawkman's Buddy Mar-Vell's Avatar
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    I feel like he's an awesome character; my new favorite hero!

    He reminds me a lot of my all time favorite superhero who is no longer with us, before his metamorphosis into the cosmically aware pacifist. I'm talking about Captain Mar-Vell. Anyway, I love his brashness and his savagery when he deals with bad guys. I love his look, and all the ways he can use the Nth Metal, which is unique.

    I can't wait to see him and Lobo throw down in JLU #2! Two more days!
    WHO DAT?!!

  3. #33
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I think Hawkman always has some of the best visuals in comics:





    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  4. #34
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I also really like this image:

    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Odd Man View Post
    I love that Hawkman isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with people who could literally rip his wings off and feed them to him.
    That might be my favorite trait of Hawkman. If I was going to direct an animated short featuring Hawkman, It would simply be the winged hero getting trashed by a bigger, more powerful foe. But good old Hawkman would just keep getting back up. Bloody. Angry. Against all odds. He'd come back swinging his mace.

    He's a never-say-die monster.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycwave View Post
    Lurve Hawkman. Have to admit though the reincarnated archaeologist was always the more interesting angle to me than the space cop. I definitely wish they would have just merged the two with the Nu52, with him having been brought back as the space cop this time. Plus, it would've given a nice roundabout with how his ancient self found the nth metal and all that.
    And that's my problem. I love *both* of his origins.

    Thanagarian space cop is super-cool. The high tech, the alien intrigues, etc.

    And yet, Egyptian reincarnation and mysticism is *also* cool. (The league has plenty of aliens and tech, for instance, but could always use some more mystically-connected heroes who *aren't* necessarily sorcerers like Zatanna.)

    It's a weird catch-22, because it feels like we could get more of the latter with Dr. Fate or Shazam/Black Adam, and we could get more of the former with all sorts of characters (Adam Strange, Martian Manhunter, even Blue Beetle, to an extent).

    I kind of wish some sort of Stargate scenario, combining Thanagarian contact millennia ago and ancient Egypt, could happen, and not suck. But it hasn't often been done well...

  7. #37
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    And that's my problem. I love *both* of his origins.

    Thanagarian space cop is super-cool. The high tech, the alien intrigues, etc.

    And yet, Egyptian reincarnation and mysticism is *also* cool. (The league has plenty of aliens and tech, for instance, but could always use some more mystically-connected heroes who *aren't* necessarily sorcerers like Zatanna.)

    It's a weird catch-22, because it feels like we could get more of the latter with Dr. Fate or Shazam/Black Adam, and we could get more of the former with all sorts of characters (Adam Strange, Martian Manhunter, even Blue Beetle, to an extent).

    I kind of wish some sort of Stargate scenario, combining Thanagarian contact millennia ago and ancient Egypt, could happen, and not suck. But it hasn't often been done well...
    This is how I feel as well. I like both of these origins as well and want to find some sort of common ground between the two. I like the connection to ancient Egypt and the mysticism that comes with it. I also like the Thanagarian aspect as well and think it provides a nice cosmic/sci-fi twist to Hawkman.
    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

  8. #38
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Post COIE, there were two sets of Hawks.

    Hawkman and Hawkwoman: They were the reincarnated Egyptians and Golden Age heroes who fought crime and had a son named Hector.

    Hawkman and Hawgirl: Alien space cops who serves on the Justice League.

    (Eventually, the alien space cop female Hawk would be Hawkwoman and the reincarnated Egyptian version would become Hawkgirl but that's a whole another story).

    Dwayne McDuffie, writer of Justice League Unlimited drew from Geoff John's work and came up with an interesting combination of the two origins which could work for comics as well:

    -Two Thanagarians, Katar Hol and Shayera Hol landed on ancient Egypt. There they build an empire and stored their memories and history in a device called the Absorbason. They eventually died due to the machinations of Hath-Seth.

    -Centuries later, Hawkgirl arrives on earth. She is the alien space officer who joins the Justice League.

    -An archaeologist named Joseph Gardner discovers the Absorbascon and gains the memories stored in it. He believes that he is the reincarnation of the ancient Katar Hol and that Shayera is his one true love. He changes his name to Carter Hall.

    -Shayera doesn't believe and thinks he is insane due to the effects of the broken Absorbascon.

    The series played in fast and loose on whether Carter and Shayera are resurrected lovers or if Carter himself has suffered from a mental breakdown. The series doesn't say either way and leaves it to the reader to interpret it.

    My own take is like this:

    -An ancient Thangarian explorer named Katar Hol crash lands on earth in ancient Egypt. He falls in love with Princess Chayera. He introduced Nth metal to the people and discovers it's magical effects on earth. Katar and Chayera die due to the plots of Hath Seth (who himself also dies) but due to magical shenanigans, they are reincarnated centuries later.

    -Carter Hall and Shiera Hall discover their ancient lives and fights Hath Set and becomes the Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl fighting alongside the JSA. They also give birth to a son named Hector Hall who grows up to take the mantle of the Silver Scarab but ultimately becomes the new Dr. Fate. Eventually, Carter and Shiera pass away but nobody knows whether they will be reincarnated again.

    -Meanwhile, on Thanagar, a baby is born and he is named Katar Hol after his great-great-great-great grand uncle. He becomes an alien police officer and eventually falls in love with Shayera Hol: a feisty red headed berserker.

    -Katar and Shayera end up on earth and Katar discovers his Grand Uncle's legacy. He takes on the name Carter Hall as tribute to his uncle. Both him and Shayera joins the Justice League.


  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    [COLOR="#B22222"] -An ancient Thangarian explorer named Katar Hol crash lands on earth in ancient Egypt. He falls in love with Princess Chayera. He introduced Nth metal to the people and discovers it's magical effects on earth. Katar and Chayera die due to the plots of Hath Seth (who himself also dies) but due to magical shenanigans, they are reincarnated centuries later.

    -Carter Hall and Shiera Hall discover their ancient lives and fights Hath Set and becomes the Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl fighting alongside the JSA. They also give birth to a son named Hector Hall who grows up to take the mantle of the Silver Scarab but ultimately becomes the new Dr. Fate. Eventually, Carter and Shiera pass away but nobody knows whether they will be reincarnated again.

    -Meanwhile, on Thanagar, a baby is born and he is named Katar Hol after his great-great-great-great grand uncle. He becomes an alien police officer and eventually falls in love with Shayera Hol: a feisty red headed berserker.

    -Katar and Shayera end up on earth and Katar discovers his Grand Uncle's legacy. He takes on the name Carter Hall as tribute to his uncle. Both him and Shayera joins the Justice League.
    Now that's a neat concept, one that kind of borrows from a theme in Babylon 5, where an ancient alien race discovers that some of the souls of ancient figures haven't been reincarnating the way they expect them to, and come to the realization that some of their souls are being reincarnated into humans instead.

    The two doomed lovers finally, as the WW2 era Justice Society Hawks, resolve their curse, and no longer reincarnate on Earth, but instead finally return to Thanagar, and are reborn there, after thousands of years trapped in the cycle of Earthly reincarnations. Twenty or thirty years later, the new individuals they have been reborn as find their way back to Earth, to take on new identities, with advanced Thanagarian tech, instead of whatever sort of mystical reincarnative supernatural stuff they might have had going on a generation ago on Earth, in completely different incarnations.

    Ideally, I'd probably want some sort of time travel involved as well. One thing that I've never been hugely comfortable with is the idea that aliens might visit a planet thousands of years in the past, and then, thousands of years later, we run into their people again, *and they haven't progressed culturally, linguistically, governmentally or technologically a single day!* I remember that being kind of ludicrous back during the old Invasion! event, where Dominators and Khunds and Daxamites and Durlans introduced 1000 years in the future are introduced as existing in the 20th century, and they are *exactly* the same in every way, even *dressing the same.* I mean, really, you've got a world where I can swallow little green rings that let you do *anything you can imagine* (as long as you don't try to imagine anything much more complex than a giant green boxing glove...), but the idea that the Dominators, a race devoted to expansion, self-improvement and both genetic and technological innovation *haven't changed in a thousand years* is actually kind of breaking suspension of disbelief.

    So I'd definitely prefer if there was some very cool explanation as to how the Hawks got shot into earth's ancient past (and so weren't just trapped on Earth reincarnating, but couldn't return to Thanagar even if they found a way, because Thanagar was still pre-industrial warring city-states or something, and they didn't want to mess up their own timeline!), to soften the notion that every planet not Earth is frozen technologically or socially in the stage of development at which we first met them.

  10. #40
    Hawkman's Buddy Mar-Vell's Avatar
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    Nah, just give me the Thanagarian space cop warrior named Kator Hol. who is now here on Earth to protect it, and I'm very happy with that.
    WHO DAT?!!

  11. #41
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Now that's a neat concept, one that kind of borrows from a theme in Babylon 5, where an ancient alien race discovers that some of the souls of ancient figures haven't been reincarnating the way they expect them to, and come to the realization that some of their souls are being reincarnated into humans instead.

    The two doomed lovers finally, as the WW2 era Justice Society Hawks, resolve their curse, and no longer reincarnate on Earth, but instead finally return to Thanagar, and are reborn there, after thousands of years trapped in the cycle of Earthly reincarnations. Twenty or thirty years later, the new individuals they have been reborn as find their way back to Earth, to take on new identities, with advanced Thanagarian tech, instead of whatever sort of mystical reincarnative supernatural stuff they might have had going on a generation ago on Earth, in completely different incarnations.
    Not.....exactly. Present day Katar Hol is the grand niece of the Golden Age Katar. There is no connection between the female Hawks because they are distinct enough to stand on their own as characters. The Golden Age Shiera Hall shares her origin with Carter Hall. I would contrast that by making Shayera Hol stand on her own more as a character. It avoids them feeling like peas in a pod.


    Ideally, I'd probably want some sort of time travel involved as well. One thing that I've never been hugely comfortable with is the idea that aliens might visit a planet thousands of years in the past, and then, thousands of years later, we run into their people again, *and they haven't progressed culturally, linguistically, governmentally or technologically a single day!* I remember that being kind of ludicrous back during the old Invasion! event, where Dominators and Khunds and Daxamites and Durlans introduced 1000 years in the future are introduced as existing in the 20th century, and they are *exactly* the same in every way, even *dressing the same.* I mean, really, you've got a world where I can swallow little green rings that let you do *anything you can imagine* (as long as you don't try to imagine anything much more complex than a giant green boxing glove...), but the idea that the Dominators, a race devoted to expansion, self-improvement and both genetic and technological innovation *haven't changed in a thousand years* is actually kind of breaking suspension of disbelief.

    So I'd definitely prefer if there was some very cool explanation as to how the Hawks got shot into earth's ancient past (and so weren't just trapped on Earth reincarnating, but couldn't return to Thanagar even if they found a way, because Thanagar was still pre-industrial warring city-states or something, and they didn't want to mess up their own timeline!), to soften the notion that every planet not Earth is frozen technologically or socially in the stage of development at which we first met them.
    I actually put some thought into that as well. Basically the ancient Katar was the Thanagarian space faring equivalent of Ferdinand Magellan who was exploring the distant stars that other Thanagarian's haven't chartered yet and his adventures lead him to crash landing to earth. The ship he used was far more advanced than anything built by earth at the time but the technology would grow to become even more advanced by his descendant Katar Hol's time. Yet, Earth is still too far away for Thanagarian's to have officially discovered it even by the time of Katar 2 which in turn kind of makes Katar 1's discovery all the more amazing since he got there with far more primitive (by Thanagarian standards) technology.

  12. #42
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Vell View Post
    Nah, just give me the Thanagarian space cop warrior named Kator Hol. who is now here on Earth to protect it, and I'm very happy with that.
    Well, you are getting it. Just with a few extra details.

    I prefer that space cops version too but the other version has it's fans as well. Two years ago, it was the opposite. I saw most folks here claiming they preferred the reincarnated version over the alien space cop version.


  13. #43
    Hawkman's Buddy Mar-Vell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Well, you are getting it. Just with a few extra details.

    I prefer that space cops version too but the other version has it's fans as well. Two years ago, it was the opposite. I saw most folks here claiming they preferred the reincarnated version over the alien space cop version.

    So you are trying to appeal to both factions. A gallant approach, and I commend you for that.

    I just feel like it could get too complicated and you know what that means. Another big mess.

    So I'm just going to stick with the spaceman direction, because that's my favorite.
    WHO DAT?!!

  14. #44
    The Winged Wonder Hawkman's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm of the mind that DC shouldn't try to make a Hawkman that appeals to everyone, because you risk ending up with a Hawkman that appeals to no one. Better to take separate approaches, in my view, and since we already have the Thanagarian on Prime Earth, I would hope that Hawkgirl gets some form of the reincarnation origin over on Earth 2. Really, though, Kendra already has a mythological Egyptian origin of some kind, and those are the most intriguing aspects of the Golden Age Hawks' origin, anyway. In my opinion, the reincarnation angle became more of a limiter than anything else towards the end of Pre-Flashpoint continuity.

    Regardless, while I acknowledge the story-telling potential exists, I think DC ultimately did the right thing by not attempting to mix and match Hawkman's origins, and I hope they don't become tempted any time soon to change course. They combined the two origins somewhat out of necessity the last time, but with the relaunch, that necessity no longer exists. Better to let sleeping dogs lie, then, I say.
    Batman: I need your help finding a man named Vulko.
    Hawkman: You want him dead or alive?
    - Justice League #17

  15. #45
    U Got Me Str8 Trippin Boo nj06's Avatar
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    I really like the way Ivan Reis draws Hawkman and in particular his armor. I also like that scene above as I feel it really captures Hawkman's ruthless and seemingly barbaric nature. I would have liked to have seen Hawkman battle with his nth metal weaponry against Ocean Master's staff.


    I also really like the feud he started with Blackfire and I would have liked to have seen that explored more. I think Blackfire was a great villain and a good foe for Hawkman. Currently she is rather dull and uninspiring.
    We are the Dora Milaje. We are the daughters of the 18 tribes of Wakanda. We are the teeth of the Panther God. Out of 10,000 years of sweat and bloodshed and battle are we born. We are the women of this ancient land. Deadliest of the species. And our time has come!

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