Avengers #30 Review and Spoilers

[dupersuper]

I just don't understand what Tony is getting the blame, he didn't bring the group back together (Black Panther did), didn't mind wipe only went along with the group (and was the only one to show remorse and promised to make it up to Steve), set up safeguards outside of the illuminati to protect the world at large (unlike every other member of the illuminati), and consequently is the only one behaving like a human being being pulled in many impossible directions at once. Not saying that the man's a saint, but it just looks like the dogpile is firmly on Tony.

A) the others aren't on the main Avengers team
B) the others aren't there
C) apart from possibly T'Challa, Tony's Steves closest friend of the mindwipers

But beyond that, he's their teammate and friend, so they're going to take his betrayal more personally. I'll wager Shuri will be angrier at T'Challa than she will Stark or Reed, while Sue will be angrier with Reed than with Strange or Beast and Medusa will be angrier at Black Bolt than T'Challa or Namor. That's just how it works.

This.

[Habis]

Well, that kinda seems like a really simplistic way of understanding all those characters.

I'm not saying that there isn't more beyond that. All I'm saying is that, in real life, you probably wouldn't like to spend too much time around them.

[People Of The Earth]

I have totally loved this stuff until Infinity, but right now I am bit lost trying to reconcile what happens here, in NA and in AW. The fact that they have started time traveling just SUCKS, it makes everything even harder to enjoy. Superheroes fighting superheroes, supeheroes meeting their past/future/alternate reality counterparts... please stop it! They are doing this on every book right now.

There's a trend here, that's true.

[Juggernaut Punch]

Beat me to saying it really. He's getting the blame because he has the closest ties to the Avengers. And he assembled this Avengers machine so they feel manipulated by him.

I suspect they would be mad at the others but not as much since Tony is "one of their own" as opposed to say Black Bolt or Namor.

When the truth comes out I would say expect Beast to get blasted by the X-Men, the Inhumans furious for Black Bolt for this and for faking his death, and that's just the tip of the iceberg really.

Black Bolt is so worshipped that none of the Inhumans will probably give a shit. Medusa might slap him for faking his death, but that's as far as I see the fall out going for him.

[XPac]

Black Bolt is so worshipped that none of the Inhumans will probably give a shit. Medusa might slap him for faking his death, but that's as far as I see the fall out going for him.

I think the Royal Family at least will give a shit... they just won't be able to do much about it (except maybe Medusa to a limited degree).

Ultimately Black Bolt is their king, so he gets to make these calls. It's good to be the king. I still believe on a personal level BB's family (minus Max of course) will be upset. But he's the guy in charge so they just have to sort of eat it.

[jackolover]

Sure so they win which is a given. But it looks like a heavy death toll involved.

As for your earlier point about not telling him how to solve the issue, I think we can cut Tony some slack. He'd just had a fight broken up and all of them were shell shocked and then Future Clint shoots him and tells him to use the hand implant to return to the present.

It's a funny conversation between the Future Avengers and current Avengers, because if Stark does alter the past, those future Avengers cease to exist. Is this what they want? To sacrifice themselves?

[jackolover]

Oh my god! So cool! Riffing on Vonnegut!

That was a lot of fun. Yu's art was great, as usual. Hickman's script was tight, balancing the character moments with the plot. The time gem causing them to Vonnegut/Lost thru time is a really neat idea. Looking forward to the next few issues.

So, you're thinking the Universe is dead, and that everyone is in their horror limbo living out their traumas?

[SuperBeetle]

It's a funny conversation between the Future Avengers and current Avengers, because if Stark does alter the past, those future Avengers cease to exist. Is this what they want? To sacrifice themselves?

I think Old Hawkeye at least does if it means saving his friends.

[jackolover]

Other than that, a rather boring issue that opens up a rather important question. Why doesn't anyone ask how the incursions were stopped?!

Maybe because it's all a dream sequence, of reality acting out its dramas in Limbo? It does want you to question why certain things are not asked, but obviously, the current Avengers are too distracted by something. This is what is bugging me about somethings in the ANMN. The Earth is destroyed in Uncanny Avengers and though we know it will all be reset, a lot of these situations are happening to Spiderman, X-Men, Stark, Cap, GOTG, Thor, Hulk, where time slips or the appearance of strange characters that shouldn't be here are occuring at a rapid pace.

[jackolover]

I think Old Hawkeye at least does if it means saving his friends.

Yeah, but then old Hawkeye doesn't think much of Future Avengers then, does he, if he is willing to sacrifice them for nostalgia?

[jackolover]

How can Hawkeye hold a 50 year grudge on Tony for keeping secrets from the group in one breath and then tell Cap a secret in the next one?

Not only that, but from this day forth, (in that timeline of 48+ years in the future), Hawkeye knows what went down in OS, and waits 48 years because he knows he is getting a second chance, so he better not blow it. Something happens in this version OS that is changed now because of the future Hawkeye.

[jackolover]

Beat me to saying it really. He's getting the blame because he has the closest ties to the Avengers. And he assembled this Avengers machine so they feel manipulated by him.

It's interesting Tony Stark assembled the Avengers World team, that comes to him in his home and confronts him about the Cap mind wipe. Hyperian and Starbrand were direct results of Starks interference. Maybe Stark has to divest himself of the team he assembled, before this all goes well? Maybe one of the Avengers is responsible for the Watchers death and the release of all the secrets?

[SuperBeetle]

Yeah, but then old Hawkeye doesn't think much of Future Avengers then, does he, if he is willing to sacrifice them for nostalgia?

The other Avengers are right there and some actually talk to old-Avengers telling them about their future. They knew the Avengers would be there (we see She-Starbrand saying so) so I assume they know that doing what they did will change them as well but accept to do it anyway to avoid the future they're living.

[jackolover]

The other Avengers are right there and some actually talk to old-Avengers telling them about their future. They knew the Avengers would be there (we see She-Starbrand saying so) so I assume they know that doing what they did will change them as well but accept to do it anyway to avoid the future they're living.

It must be pretty bad then.

But still, who would knowingly cause their own existence to end, by making past versions of themselves change the past? It's a pretty unusual thing to do. It says something about alternate reality characters that they willingly eliminate themselves. Similar thing happened in AoU when they reached the Le Fey Reality. Alternate reality characters have a very low self esteem.

[People Of The Earth]

It's a funny conversation between the Future Avengers and current Avengers, because if Stark does alter the past, those future Avengers cease to exist. Is this what they want? To sacrifice themselves?

No, if Stark alter the past all it does is split the timeline and create a new one with a different future, their future won't necessarily be destroyed.