Throwdown: Amazing Spider-Man 2 VS Spider-Man 3

[Scott Taylor]

In what universe is Harry underdeveloped in SM3? He's had two movies of development at that point and a lot of screen time. If anything he was overdeveloped and room should have been made by cutting some of his stuff (butler scene!) and adding more for Venom.

[William300]

In what universe is Harry underdeveloped in SM3? He's had two movies of development at that point and a lot of screen time. If anything he was overdeveloped and room should have been made by cutting some of his stuff (butler scene!) and adding more for Venom.

He was undeveloped as a villain. They built up his fall from grace in Spidey 2 and the buildup of the the Peter-MJ-Harry love triangle, but they didn't develop him as villain properly or the love triangle. He had one fight with Peter, got amnesia, got his memories back, had another fight and then suddenly decided not be evil again, his redemption was rushed. Harry was suffering from insanity cased by an unstable super-soldier serum, they suddenly reversed that with one comment from his butler, his whole arch, from villain to his tragic death was rushed.

[Frontier]

Movies use shorthand information all the time. Nature of the beast. But Peter doesn't come across as "smart" when it counts. That's Gwen's job. She was the one who came up with the cure for the Lizard's formula in the first film. She was the one who had the plan to defeat Electro in the second film. If Peter were shown brushing up on youtube videos about batteries, and later came up with the plan to defeat Electro, that would be an entirely different thing.

But it's not. Peter can't even stop his own bad guys on his own in his own movie.

At least he beat Harry on his own. And without his mask coming off! That was a nice change of pace .

[Kevinroc]

At least he beat Harry on his own. And without his mask coming off! That was a nice change of pace .

Raimi Peter was at least able to save his girlfriend.

[Frontier]

Raimi Peter was at least able to save his girlfriend.

Well, that's fair. Then again, Webb Peter kinda had the deck stacked against him, in more ways than one, when it came to that .

[Kevinroc]

Well, that's fair. Then again, Webb Peter kinda had the deck stacked against him, in more ways than one, when it came to that .

ASM Spider-Man was just a terrible superhero. I wouldn't want this guy anywhere near me if there was danger afoot.

Raimi Peter, for all his problems, was at least a semi-competent superhero.

[Frontier]

ASM Spider-Man was just a terrible superhero. I wouldn't want this guy anywhere near me if there was danger afoot.

Raimi Peter, for all his problems, was at least a semi-competent superhero.

Well, I'd say ASM Spider-Man got the quips and general crime-fighting down. He just always had more trouble beating the Big Bad's then Raimi Peter .

I wouldn't worry though, considering ASM Spidey was actually pretty good with protecting people and containing collateral damage. Unless you personally knew him, then you'd either die, get turned into a Supervillain, or fade into obscurity...

[Scott Taylor]

his redemption was rushed.

True enough. The whole final sequence felt very rushed, actually.

[William300]

Raimi Peter was at least able to save his girlfriend.

Same could be said for the source material. Gwen died there too.

[Kevinroc]

Same could be said for the source material. Gwen died there too.

Peter had other people in his life in the comics beyond Gwen.

Well, I'd say ASM Spider-Man got the quips and general crime-fighting down. He just always had more trouble beating the Big Bad's then Raimi Peter .

I wouldn't worry though, considering ASM Spidey was actually pretty good with protecting people and containing collateral damage. Unless you personally knew him, then you'd either die, get turned into a Supervillain, or fade into obscurity...

That makes ASM Spidey sound like 616 Spidey. And 616 Spidey shouldn't ever need to use youtube to understand how batteries work. Or be obsessed with his biological father.

Sadly, he does seem to need other people to fight his battles for him these days.

True enough. The whole final sequence felt very rushed, actually.

The whole last act of Spider-Man 3 WAS really rushed. MJ wasn't even supposed to be kidnapped for the final battle. Gwen was. And MJ was supposed to convince Harry to turn over a new leaf and help Peter. Not the butler.

That's why the old Spider-Man 3 trailers have MJ saying "We've all done terrible things to each other, but we have to learn to forgive each other or else everything we ever were will have meant nothing."

[William300]

Peter had other people in his life in the comics beyond Gwen.

I don't see how that matters. In both cases they failed to save her.

[Kevinroc]

I don't see how that matters. In both cases they failed to save her.

We were discussing what a horrible superhero ASM Spidey was. Because the films put a large amount of emphasis on the Stacys. To the point that Peter didn't seem to have anybody else in his life (unless you count the way he treated Aunt May, which was pretty badly). So Peter's failures are much more pronounced than, say, even 616 Spidey. Because he had people there for him after Gwen died.

But for some reason, the ASM films didn't think the epilogue with MJ was important.

(What a couple of garbage films.)

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Movies use shorthand information all the time. Nature of the beast. But Peter doesn't come across as "smart" when it counts. That's Gwen's job. She was the one who came up with the cure for the Lizard's formula in the first film. She was the one who had the plan to defeat Electro in the second film. If Peter were shown brushing up on youtube videos about batteries, and later came up with the plan to defeat Electro, that would be an entirely different thing.

But it's not. Peter can't even stop his own bad guys on his own in his own movie.

But in TASM Peter did not have access to a big lab most of the time to make the cure, and they skipped giving him the idea in Oscorp after seeing the mouse probably to keep the story progressing. Gwen works at Oscorp, she worked at the bio lab, she had access to expensive equipment and materials that allowed her to produce the antidote. Rookie Peter couldn't fight against giant Lizard in his peak strength (Lizard) on his own (Spidey), and it was harder to do so while focusing on the need to place the cure in the tower dispenser.

In TASM2 Gwen knew the grid Electro was controlling, that's why she helped.
Spidey beat Electro in Times Square at least.

[Kevinroc]

But in TASM Peter did not have access to a big lab most of the time to make the cure, and they skipped giving him the idea in Oscorp after seeing the mouse probably to keep the story progressing. Gwen works at Oscorp, she worked at the bio lab, she had access to expensive equipment and materials that allowed her to produce the antidote. Rookie Peter couldn't fight against giant Lizard in his peak strength (Lizard) on his own (Spidey), and it was harder to do so while focusing on the need to place the cure in the tower dispenser.

In TASM2 Gwen knew the grid Electro was controlling, that's why she helped.
Spidey beat Electro in Times Square at least.

What you're talking about is the way those films were structured to build up Gwen's character. Unfortunately, the cost of that build-up was Peter. What was the point of him looking up how batteries worked if he wasn't going to be the one who used his brains to defeat Electro?

I stand by what I said. ASM Peter doesn't come across as being particularly intelligent.

[Scott Taylor]

The way ASM 1 and 2 were put together, Gwen was older and more established as an up and coming professional than Peter. I think they were trying to portray Peter as more of a lovable loser type. Opposites attract and all that. And it was effective, just not sure it was prudent.