Three Convergence spin-offs coming in October: "Superman: Lois and Clark", "Telos", and "Titans Hunt"

[Dataweaver]

Well, the problem is, I have a particular interpretation of what other people are expecting, that isn't what I think is going to happen. Then, DC does do SOMETHING, which is neither what I think others were asking for/expecting or what I was talking about NOT happening, but technically since I hadn't considered the possibility it proves the letter of what I said wrong but not the general intent. So that's when it looks like the goalposts moved, but it's not my intent.

That bolded part is indeed a problem. You're not arguing about Convergence so much as you're arguing about some peoples' expectations for Convergence, as you interpret them. Forgive me if I'm more interested in substantive issues (such as what the actual consequences of the event are) rather than conducting a campaign to discredit part of the fanbase.

Perhaps the word "significant" should have been included with "consequences". Because yes, they created a book about Telos and Telos was in Convergence, so technically, yes, something from Convergence is continuing from Convergence. But really, does that take any effort? Does that indicate that Didio et al sat down and said "look guys, we're going to really make some major changes in our publishing line. And the major lynchpin, the thing the entire thing is going to revolve around, will be Convergence" - ? Because that to me would be significant consequences.

Ah. That would indeed be significant; but it's not necessary for Convergence to be a lynchpin in order for it to have significant consequences.

That said, the fact that the pre-Flashpoint Superman has spent nine years on the post-Flashpoint Earth-0, working in the background the whole time, strikes me as a significant consequence, and might even rise to the level of “lynchpin”. So even if you define "significant consequence" as "affects Earth-0 in some substantial way", I would argue that Superman: Lois and Clark has more in the way of significant consequences than Earth 2: Society has. (And frankly, I wouldn't use that definition precisely because it disqualifies Earth 2: Society from being consequential unless and until it interacts with Earth-0.)

Picking out a character created specifically for the series and giving him a book, or taking characters from a past continuity and putting them in completely new circumstances, or whatever the heck the connection in Titans Hunt is supposed to be - those do not come across as things that required any effort or major intent. Certainly not the kind that people seemed to think was going to be there.

We don't know that yet. Certainly, the solicit for Titans Hunt strongly implies that Lilith's visions only happened because of the Convergence. Could they have happened without it? Perhaps; perhaps not. But they didn't. And at this point, saying that Convergence has as little to do with Titans Hunt as Flashpoint had to do with Morrison's Action Comics run is premature.

So yes, to me, Telos getting a series means nothing because he's a new character who could have had other origins not tied to Convergence. He certainly wasn't the standout character - frankly, I have no idea where DC is going with that.

I'm not sure he could have; it's premature to say. But, as with the Titans Hunt link to Convergence, it's largely a moot point: he didn't have other origins — not unless DC is doing something really weird. As for where DC is going with that, the solicit says that he'll be world-hoppingI don't know for certain where they're going with that, either; but it's too early to rule out pre-Flashpoint timelines.

And we already HAD the multiverse and Multiversity. We didn't need an origin for it - we had one before Flashpoint, so why wouldn't we have one after?

Convergence arguably did more than just alter the origin for the Orrery of Worlds; it resulted in the pre-Crisis Infinite Earths surviving the Crisis, laying the groundwork for a post-Crisis infinite multiverse — not just 52 worlds; infinite.

All in all, it's the intent and the "let's wait and see" and the utter unnecessary nature of Convergence that still does suggest to me that it was pretty much there to fill the publishing schedule, not a lynchpin for anything.

To say that it was “utterly unnecessary” is a personal value judgment, not a fact. Likewise, you don't know the intent; you're assuming that it was conceived merely to fill a hole in the publishing schedule; but there are no facts to back that up.

Bottom line, though; I'm curious: what will it take for you to change your mind and agree that Convergence has lasting, significant consequences, and was not just a two-month filler?

[Lee Stone]

Plenty of time for it to change. Specially if it's only a few costumes.

For giggles...
Covers that I'm familiar with being edited.
Note: I'm not counting Static being removed from the JLU Preview image because it wasn't really a cover.

Justice League Europe #3 - solicited cover had Wonder Woman, finished cover had Catherine Cobert (her only cover appearance, I believe) in her place.
Justice League International (2011) #1 - original solicited cover had a girl many believed to be the Greek girl Booster Gold had met during Flashpoint, was changed mid-solicit to omit her, and then finally replacing her with Godiva.

Anybody know any others?

[tako]

So what do we have so far...

Flamebird mentioning something in Batwoman.
Red Hood & the Outlaws mentioning something.
Red Robin mentioning something in Teen Titans.
The mention in Grayson's Secret Origins issue.

Am I missing anything?

The first issue of issue of the GLC in the New 52 mentions the Teen Titans.

[Sacred Knight]

So we gonna see these folks again?

My god those shorts and shoes. You can understand the day and age in which the trunks over the pants look was cool and indicative of a strong man, hence strongman, but how were those turtle shorts and pixie shoes ever considered doable? Give the poor kid some tights at least.

[gwenFan]

Plenty of old societies and warriors and cavemen never wore pants.

[Sacred Knight]

I'm looking it from a POV of what was around in the current 1940's society though, like how the circus strongmen inspired in part Superman's look. At least from the waist up he resembles a trapeze artist but from the waist down he looks like a mix of swimmer and Robin Hood. At the very least I would have imagined it would have been something rid of after the Seduction of the Innocent and the Comics Code, regardless of how much that book was bad psychology, it still left a mark nonetheless. And more importantly by god is it goofy looking, lol.

[joybeans]

Seriously, what's with Bette's hand?

[mortymantis]

From Jurgens himself: http://comicbook.com/2015/07/12/dan-...clarifies-the/

Thanks for posting this article.

I'd like to see what "behind the scenes " stuff this Classic supes has been doing.

Also it seems like the new 52 needs some mentoring. It will be cool to see the classic teaching this one how to be superman!

[BohemiaDrinker]

For giggles...
Covers that I'm familiar with being edited.
Note: I'm not counting Static being removed from the JLU Preview image because it wasn't really a cover.

Justice League Europe #3 - solicited cover had Wonder Woman, finished cover had Catherine Cobert (her only cover appearance, I believe) in her place.
Justice League International (2011) #1 - original solicited cover had a girl many believed to be the Greek girl Booster Gold had met during Flashpoint, was changed mid-solicit to omit her, and then finally replacing her with Godiva.

Anybody know any others?

There were a couple of JL covers back at Brad Meltzer's run that had only the silhouette of the villain instead of of the drawing, with I recall correctly

Also, Sinestro Corps War: Superman(boy?) Prime was solicited as Sinestro Corps War: AntiMonitor, to avoid spoilers.

That said, even if these uniforms remain, that art is not final. If you look at the image full size at http://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/...itans-Hunt.jpg , you'll see that:

- Raven is using her classic uniform, partially covered in black.
- All the black legs and feet of the characters on the ground have some pencil textures that usually don't stay until the art.
- All of the characters on the background are not colored. They've been trough the flatter, but those are not final colors. The only 2 characters that have anything more on the side of actual coloring are Dick and Donna; and Donna is sporting some pretty shoddy photoshop brush work as a weight adder, while Dick doesn't even have a belt.

So, the art is definitely not final (and looking at Donna and Dick, it doesn't seem it was intended as final), the question is if these uniforms are gonna change or not. I'm betting ate least Donna's will; this screams "placeholder" when you look it up close.

[Dataweaver]

So we gonna see these folks again?

And you can almost pick out who the originals were based pn their color schemes: if the costume is red and yellow, you get four of the five; add a touch of green, and you get the fifth one and Betty Kane (the groper, apparently).

[joybeans]

Hey, the old Titans run just got added on Comixology: https://www.comixology.com/The-Titan...cs-series/7247

[byrd156]

Hey, the old Titans run just got added on Comixology: https://www.comixology.com/The-Titan...cs-series/7247

That's probably my favorite run of the Titans even though Helfer almost ruined it by bringing in those DEO kids.

[Sacred Knight]

Also it seems like the new 52 needs some mentoring. It will be cool to see the classic teaching this one how to be superman!

He doesn't need mentoring nor taught how to be Superman. Superman's not a title he's trying to obtain, its who he is. He just has differences, like all the other written/performed incarnations before him.

And even if he did need mentoring I'd prefer it not be from someone who was apparently here years before the first wave of superheroes and yet did not join the fight for any of the key battles this Earth has thus far faced since the Age of Superheroes began around him. Can't wait to see the contrived reason given to explain that one away.

[Joe Kalicki]

But they've removed people from covers before...

Wait, the collections are actually edited to remove references like that? Really? Did they edit old-style Lobo out of the collections too?

No, because that Lobo is a different character than the new Lobo.

[Samurai Jack]

I'll be waiting for Superman: Lois & Clark to be collected in trade paperback volumes.

I like Raven's costume on the Titans Hunt cover, but I haven't been following any of the Teen Titans comics to understand what is currently going on that leads into the new story.

I would be far more interested in a new ongoing Convergence spinoff written by Greg Rucka and drawn by Cully Hamner starring Renee Montoya as The Question, Batwoman, and Huntress. That, or the same writer and artist working on a 6 issue beared Two-Face comic that takes place after Convergence: The Question #2. I'm not expecting the Two-Face comic to happen, but I hope The Question will get a new ongoing comic announced, preferably written by Greg Rucka. An ongoing or miniseries that took place after Convergence: Nightwing/Oracle #2 would be great too.