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  1. #1
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    Default Questions about heroes reborn and onslaught reborn ?

    Ok I was doing so more looking up replacements for herc and maybe present day iceman. And I found heroes reborn and onslaught reborn. Anyway I have questions...

    1) I was wondering if all the heroes on counter-earth are recreations of the originals or did some of the originals make it to counter earth ?

    2) well almost the same for the last one. But if the ff are duplicates of the real then are they the same made by franklin on counter earth ?

    3) I know Thor on counter earth was a duplicate then the real Thor showed up then later the duplicate Thor died.
    So what happened to the other duplicate heroes ?

  2. #2
    True Brit Captain Wessex's Avatar
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    the F4 and the Avengers who attacked Onslaught were reborn in the new pocket dimension. AFAIK, once those characters left and returned to 616, the universe and its inhabitants ceased to exist.
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  3. #3
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Wessex View Post
    the F4 and the Avengers who attacked Onslaught were reborn in the new pocket dimension. AFAIK, once those characters left and returned to 616, the universe and its inhabitants ceased to exist.
    How far can we go off the truth?

    Anyway
    1.) We had Cable visiting the Franklin's universe and like you said the original Thor in his orginal body.
    2.) I'm not understand the question but the FF are like everyone else who was rescued by Franklin
    3.)You mean the heroes who wasn't from the original earth ? They stayed on their own earth.
    A) counter-earth is something different than that synthetic alternate universe(later Marvel claimed it was pocket but the story was very clear) in which the heroes were and Franklin created => Franklins's Universe or Hero Reborn Universe

    What happened next to the FU or better in it was that Doom returned conquered it and later make it to the counter-earth of 616(which previous one was created by the High Evolutionary and destroyed by Galactus like NuWorld)
    Now things become confusing after M-Day the counter-earth was simply missing/gone and the FU seems to be altered in a way in which all those old things when the heroes left seems never been happened. This is where and when Onslaught Reborn plays.

    In today MU a new counter-earth showed up again created by the High Evolutionary(Uncanny Avengers)

    What really happened with FU is Marvel's real ultimate mystery. The end of the FU can be found in the last issue of the FF and I hope I spoiler not so much but Marvel downgraded it again only to let it be gone but was it the real thing?(Like I said during/after M-Day it altered a lot and it was this altered version which was gone)
    Last edited by TakoM; 07-11-2015 at 04:37 AM.

  4. #4
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Wessex View Post
    the F4 and the Avengers who attacked Onslaught were reborn in the new pocket dimension.
    Correct.
    AFAIK, once those characters left and returned to 616, the universe and its inhabitants ceased to exist.
    Incorrect. Ashema the Celestial stayed behind to safeguard the Heroes Reborn Earth and universe, but the Dreaming Celestial intervened and it took the F4, Doom and Ashema to defeat him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    Correct.

    Incorrect. Ashema the Celestial stayed behind to safeguard the Heroes Reborn Earth and universe, but the Dreaming Celestial intervened and it took the F4, Doom and Ashema to defeat him.
    Ok let me see if I got this right. To save his friends and family from onslaught franklin created a new counter earth in a pocket demention were the heroes were reborn with slightly different origins. But for some reason new ther are two fantastic four's the 616 and the counter earth ones ? Man I'm confused

  6. #6
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    The Heroes Reborn Earth wasn't called a "Counter-Earth" until it was moved to the 616 universe and placed opposite the Sun. It was this Earth where the original Fantastic Four, Avengers, and Doom were all sent to. There they interacted with the native superheroes, villains and civilians such as Wyatt Wingfoot, Alicia Masters, the Royal Family of the Inhumans (except for Crystal who was among the Avengers sent), She-Hulk, Kang, etc.

    Onslaught Reborn resulted in Franklin creating another pocket universe with its own Earth and heroes and villains which shared the costumes of their Heroes Reborn counterparts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    The Heroes Reborn Earth wasn't called a "Counter-Earth" until it was moved to the 616 universe and placed opposite the Sun. It was this Earth where the original Fantastic Four, Avengers, and Doom were all sent to. There they interacted with the native superheroes, villains and civilians such as Wyatt Wingfoot, Alicia Masters, the Royal Family of the Inhumans (except for Crystal who was among the Avengers sent), She-Hulk, Kang, etc.

    Onslaught Reborn resulted in Franklin creating another pocket universe with its own Earth and heroes and villains which shared the costumes of their Heroes Reborn counterparts.
    Ok then let me ask this. Wich heroes from franklins counter earth were original and duplicated I know Thor and the inhumans besides crystal were duplicated but the others IDK ?

  8. #8
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid_omega_prime View Post
    Ok then let me ask this. Wich heroes from franklins counter earth were original and duplicated I know Thor and the inhumans besides crystal were duplicated but the others IDK ?
    I mentioned them: Avengers (those who "entered" Onslaught), Fantastic Four and Doom were the originals.
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  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Those that were sent to the new world were:

    Avengers:
    Captain America
    Iron Man (teen Tony version who was changed back into and adult on the new world)
    Thor
    Wasp (changed back into a human from the buterfly form she had before)
    Black Panther
    Hawkeye
    Scarlet Witch
    Vision
    Crystal
    Giant Man
    Namor

    Fantastic Four:
    Mister Fantastic
    Thing
    Human Torch
    Invisible Woman

    Others:
    Doctor Doom
    Bruce Banner

  10. #10
    True Brit Captain Wessex's Avatar
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    not that any of this really matters any more, since Counter Earth was destroyed in the Incursion and I'd bet money WON'T get restored after Secret Wars.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Those that were sent to the new world were:

    Avengers:
    Captain America
    Iron Man (teen Tony version who was changed back into and adult on the new world)
    Thor
    Wasp (changed back into a human from the buterfly form she had before)
    Black Panther
    Hawkeye
    Scarlet Witch
    Vision
    Crystal
    Giant Man
    Namor

    Fantastic Four:
    Mister Fantastic
    Thing
    Human Torch
    Invisible Woman

    Others:
    Doctor Doom
    Bruce Banner
    Ok so that means Thor was the only duplicate then right ?

  12. #12
    Veteran Member Joe Acro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Wessex View Post
    not that any of this really matters any more, since Counter Earth was destroyed in the Incursion and I'd bet money WON'T get restored after Secret Wars.
    It might've been destroyed before that. In Uncanny Avengers, The High Evolutionary's Counter-Earth has returned. Either the original was somehow restored or the High Evolutionary transformed the one that was there.

  13. #13
    Nothing is safe TakoM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Acro View Post
    It might've been destroyed before that. In Uncanny Avengers, The High Evolutionary's Counter-Earth has returned. Either the original was somehow restored or the High Evolutionary transformed the one that was there.
    I think there is a good chance that something happened to counter-earth before they rolled out Onslaught Reborn. At least on an editorial level I believe I heard that they said something around that time to explain why Heroes Reborn Universe looks so rolled back to zero.(and than take another way).

    My most naive/weird theory is that through M-day time was messed up and rolled everything back the times-stream forged and so started everything new and different but with some difference.

    I'm not sure if somebody remember what Onslaught said in his final moment(in his final form) before he was defeated in his own event in the 90's something like :"I'm the essence of a world living destiny . I always assumed Franklin used Onslaught energies to create his own new universe but I think it reference to the essence which seems to be lacking in the last FF run.(because the Onslaught which ended in this universe where free and alive<-> Franklin didn't distributed his essence). This would also explain why Franklin's power came back this universe connected itself to Franklin because it has no Ashima or Eternity which is in control, if you speak in this case from awareness or an actual power boost doesn't matter.

    Said so one universe became 2 the only idea bedside chased to exist to the counter-earth is that Ashema used that moment to pull back that earth into the universe in which it belong the same way it ended up in the 616 before.(M-day and the chaos storm have many similar traits)

  14. #14
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    Rikki Barnes from Heroes Reborn Earth made it to 616...she's using the Nomad name right? Unless 616 character is an alternative version of the Liefeld character?

  15. #15
    Were You There? Michael P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    Rikki Barnes from Heroes Reborn Earth made it to 616...she's using the Nomad name right? Unless 616 character is an alternative version of the Liefeld character?
    Pretty sure she died.
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