SDCC: Timm Announces "Batman: The Killing Joke" as Next Animated Project

[JBatmanFan05]

Let the fools complain about a Batman classic being adapted.

Anyway, I'd bet anyone right now, TKJ is gonna be sanitized some....artistic license. It's gonna happen.

The Killing Joke will never die...all the tumblr fans in the world can't stop it.

[kivatt]

A woman being shot, sexually assaulted, and fridged isn't exactly a "nice thing," but okay.

It's a comicbook one. The comics is a nice thing, as well as the adaptation. We are not talking about what happens in real life, which is not an outcome of what happens in comic books. And from that Barbara has grown so much more. She is stronger than what happened to her, and a solider for it.

And instead of these tumblr people complaining about comicbooks, why don't they complain about real life issues. You have people being killed out here in these streets but they are silent. You have women of color/minorities struggling, and they are silent about it, but they want to complain about this. Really?

[kivatt]

He says with no apparent sense of irony.

Not everyone will like everything. You won't like everything someone else does.

God knows it's easy to get pissed about tumblr and what it does with fandom, I've fallne down that hole myself before, but seriously, leave it alone, you'll be happier.

Look at my avatar. And then try to tell me that again lol

[Tuck]

Not liking something doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed to exist. Tumblrinas and their apologists don't seem to understand that.

The author thinks it shouldn't exist. Moore regrets crippling Barbara . . . especially for a story he doesn't consider very good.

Nothing is going to happen. The film will get made. People will enjoy it (myself included). But it's not as if the conversation isn't one that should happen. Wein's cavalier response to Moore's request to crippler Barbara alone supports this.

[XanatosVanBadass]

The author thinks it shouldn't exist. Moore regrets crippling Barbara . . . especially for a story he doesn't consider very good.

Nothing is going to happen. The film will get made. People will enjoy it (myself included). But it's not as if the conversation isn't one that should happen. Wein's cavalier response to Moore's request to crippler Barbara alone supports this.

And yet despite Moore's feelings, the book continues to be published to this day. Rightfully so. The Killing Joke is more important than the the author's or any Tumblrina's personal feelings.

Thinking a work of art you personally don't care for should be stopped is ABSOLUTELY the kind of thing that should be challenged and fought.

[BatGlamorous]

To be fair, DC could take a lot of artistic license since it's an adaption, after all. iirc, they ended up changing a lot of Jason's backstory for Under The Red Hood, so they might do the same here.

Babs being crippled while trying to save her dad from Joker would be a nice work around to not piss as many people off I think. She's still victimized, but it would be her falling in the line of duty instead of being used as a pawn to start to story itself.

[Tuck]

How is it important?

That's pretty much Moore's whole issue with the story. That it's not important. It's about Joker and Batman . . . and nothing else. No universal themes. No exploration of the nature of mental illness or good and evil, or anything bigger than two characters. His issue is that the story is only for people who are intricately interested in the Joker and/or Batman. Add to that that two important Batman characters, Jim and Barbara, are essentially props in this story, and the whole thing seems even weaker.

Look, it's a good Batman story. But nothing about it constitutes importance.

[XanatosVanBadass]

You really don't think being the most infamous Joker story, the story that changed how people saw and wrote the character, constitutes importance? It's not as significant (or as good) as Watchman I'll grant you, but it's clearly more than just a good Joker yarn. It was very much a turning point for the Joker. For better or worse obviously.

That said, I think my second paragraph was my more important point. A piece of art should never be censored/altered/pulled just because YOU (the general you, not you personally) have a problem with it.

[JBatmanFan05]

That said, I think my second paragraph was my more important point.

second paragraph: "Thinking a work of art you personally don't care for should be stopped is ABSOLUTELY the kind of thing that should be challenged and fought."

A piece of art should never be censored/altered/pulled just because YOU (the general you, not you personally) have a problem with it.

I absolutely agree. Sadly, this idea of freedom is slowly dying.

[Tuck]

That said, I think my second paragraph was my more important point. A piece of art should never be censored/altered/pulled just because YOU (the general you, not you personally) have a problem with it.

It's commercial art though. That's exactly how corporate IP holders determine what to publish and what not to publish.

In either case, I think conversation is usually good. It can lead to improvements in storytelling in the future.

[RedQueen]

Most people complain about people complaining on here. It's an endless cycle.

But Killing Joke isn't an easy read for a lot of people. I like it and I can still see valid complaints about it. Alan Moore even says editorial should have reigned him so is it really censorship? The writer himself has issue with it. It's controversial for a reason.

[HellHere]

IAnd instead of these tumblr people complaining about comicbooks, why don't they complain about real life issues. You have people being killed out here in these streets but they are silent. You have women of color/minorities struggling, and they are silent about it, but they want to complain about this. Really?

Strawman. People can be angry about more than one thing, and the people who get angry at TKJ, are often angry about real world injustices too. But since you're looking for TKJ outrage, you're not looking for the other stuff. Tumblr has a lot of social justice posts. (And people who use that as an insult are saying more about themselves than anything.)

And the reason they're complaining about comic books, is generally that they read comic books.

I don't like TKJ, I ignore it. I wish I could ignore the people who want to save us from Dick Grayson ass jokes as easily.

[XanatosVanBadass]

It's commercial art though. That's exactly how corporate IP holders determine what to publish and what not to publish.

In either case, I think conversation is usually good. It can lead to improvements in storytelling in the future.

Indeed. That's why people can vote with their wallets. This way you don't have to support something you don't care for, but you're not trying to deprive someone of something they would enjoy.

[protege]

The author thinks it shouldn't exist. Moore regrets crippling Barbara . . . especially for a story he doesn't consider very good.

Nothing is going to happen. The film will get made. People will enjoy it (myself included). But it's not as if the conversation isn't one that should happen. Wein's cavalier response to Moore's request to crippler Barbara alone supports this.

That's funny, because of what happened to barbara as a result, and how it more or less defined the Joker's depiction in the bat books from that point forward

[Flash Gordon]

It takes a character, Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, who was pretty important in the advancement of women in comics (she had a lot of attention on the '66 show) and made her just a victim. Hell, I'll even admit Babs' importance, and I'm a Cassandra Cain kinda guy.

Remember the idea of Oracle, which was wonderful, came later. That was making lemonade out of lemons. This was just a pure snuff, rape, murder, torture, and killing of Batgirl. Now bad things do happen to good people, all the time, every day- but to let it be the only defining quality of the entire arc of Barbara Gordon's life is not fair. To me it can stand as a Batman story, I've read it a few times and wasn't over the moon about it, but it shouldn't be considered this end all be all of Batman comics. It isn't. Moore himself didn't even like it. It doesn't say anything about the characters beyond introducing a weakness to the concept of "Batman".

Now about that cover, well there was a real reason for the outrage about that. Everything the current creative team is doing is about making Batgirl more modern and lighthearted and here is a cover implying she's about to get brutally raped. That's just not cool, man.