SDCC: Timm Announces "Batman: The Killing Joke" as Next Animated Project

[The_Greatest_Username]

But the story is not about her, that's just a plot point

Without going into another topic, that's where some of the criticism comes from. Just look up 'Women in Refrigerators'.

So? It's still the torturing, beating, and murdering of a child who got tricked while trying to find his mother. It being combined with him becoming Red Hood, shouldn't matter. Also, at the same time, it makes more sense than creating an original plotline showing Babs getting her get back against the Joker, within the same story.

Jason's death, while still a plot device to get at Bruce, was still about himself at the same time, due to his personal struggles, and him trying to find his mom, and it justifies Jason's argument: Kill this man! Stop him from doing this to more, and more people! Jason felt that Bruce wasn't doing all that he could to stop crime, and his becoming Red Hood had everything to do with proving to Batman that his way was better, take out the Batman for allowing the Joker, and other criminals, to still do their thing, and to kill the man that killed him. It's literally a continuation of the argument that created the divide between Jason and Bruce, and built on the anger he couldn't sate (another reason why Bruce and Jason could never get that close).

Babs becoming Oracle has nothing to do with Joker, or that story. So her time as Oracle not being touched upon when whenever TKJ is brought up isn't a surprise, because her rise as Oracle has nothing to do with the story, and it doesn't add to it like Jason's rise as Red Hood, or like Dick's fear of Harvey being something he must overcome thru Harvey. Babs bounced back quite quickly anyways, so this event doesn't degrade her; in fact it strengthens her character, as that incident didn't break her, and she came back way stronger. Jason came back, a broken man, and lost. His battle ending the same way his life did those years ago: via exploding building.

Combining it with the Red Hood does matter because it shows us the whole story. If it cut off at Jason's being brutally murdered, I don't doubt there would be a lot more strong opinions on the issue. The story never ends there though, now when Jason's story is told, Death in the Family, is seen as more of a backstory while his rise as the Red Hood is more in focus.
Contrast this with Barbara, we're not going to be seeing her rise as Oracle, we're just going to get her as a victim.
It doesn't matter that Barbara bounced back because that's not what we're going to be seeing. This is the last we'll see of Barbara if the movie follows the source material. She's just broken for someone else's story and then tossed aside.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

Without going into another topic, that's where some of the criticism comes from. Just look up 'Women in Refrigerators'.



Combining it with the Red Hood does matter because it shows us the whole story. If it cut off at Jason's being brutally murdered, I don't doubt there would be a lot more strong opinions on the issue. The story never ends there though, now when Jason's story is told, Death in the Family, is seen as more of a backstory while his rise as the Red Hood is more in focus.
Contrast this with Barbara, we're not going to be seeing her rise as Oracle, we're just going to get her as a victim.
It doesn't matter that Barbara bounced back because that's not what we're going to be seeing. This is the last we'll see of Barbara if the movie follows the source material. She's just broken for someone else's story and then tossed aside.

As she should be. It's not her story. She's not as integral to this story, as Jason's being the RH is to DitF.

Like I've already said, I'm not against her playing a minor role as Oracle; in fact I'd like that. However, I'm also not against her disappearing from the movie after that. Why? Because her being Oracle has absolutely nothing to do with this story. UtRH is the continuation of DitF. Barbara becoming Oracle is separate from TKJ.

If Timm decides include Oracle, cool (as long as she's still has Dick Grayson level relevance). If she disappears after the hospital scene, then I'm cool with at too.

[SteveGus]

I think the reason people aren't raging over Jason because they haven't said anything about adapting Death in the Family.

The problem for me is that DC's animated videos used to be the best around; no longer. Ever since Flashpoint Paradox the quality has been in steep decline. When they're not force-feeding New 52 rubbish, they're going "dark and edgy" and dragging Timm along for the ride. Animating this degrading story from the man who ruined comics is another example of the extreme bad judgment that's marring the product line.

[Panfoot]

The problem for me is that DC's animated videos used to be the best around; no longer. Ever since Flashpoint Paradox the quality has been in steep decline. When they're not force-feeding New 52 rubbish, they're going "dark and edgy" and dragging Timm along for the ride. Animating this degrading story from the man who ruined comics is another example of the extreme bad judgment that's marring the product line.

Come on, really?

[Immortal Weapon]

The problem for me is that DC's animated videos used to be the best around; no longer. Ever since Flashpoint Paradox the quality has been in steep decline. When they're not force-feeding New 52 rubbish, they're going "dark and edgy" and dragging Timm along for the ride. Animating this degrading story from the man who ruined comics is another example of the extreme bad judgment that's marring the product line.

Dramatic much?

[Drz]

Alan Moore caused the 90s to happen!

Blame him, not the publishers. :b

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

The problem for me is that DC's animated videos used to be the best around; no longer. Ever since Flashpoint Paradox the quality has been in steep decline. When they're not force-feeding New 52 rubbish, they're going "dark and edgy" and dragging Timm along for the ride. Animating this degrading story from the man who ruined comics is another example of the extreme bad judgment that's marring the product line.

Honestly?

Also, Assault on Arkham was fun as hell....tho, you're right about all the other films, post-Superman: Unbound, being pretty bad.

[thwhtGuardian]

1) Well yes, I can definitely agree that both women, and men, get hurt, and humiliated, in different ways, but regardless these ways of hurting them should be able to be used freely.

2) I use the "not as bad" argument, because Jason's death was much, much worse, but people don't protest, and cry about how offensive, what happened to him was. Like you said, they're both horrible things that happened to people that didn't deserve it, so people should be CONSISTENT. This is just like the ridiculous outcry over the off screen Sansa rape scene, and then the internet is surprisingly quiet when the next episode showed a child getting burned alive. Also, no out cry when Arya killed an innocent child in season 2.

Be CONSISTENT with your rage people; don't pick and choose what horrible act fits whatever movement you support.

Plenty of people protest, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that stunt was one of the sleaziest things done in comics.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

Plenty of people protest, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that stunt was one of the sleaziest things done in comics.

I think that's an overreaction. It's not even close the sleaziest thing in comics.

I mean, really? She was a civilian, and that's not even the worse thing to be done to civilians in comics. Bad things can, and should be able to happen to everyone in comics.

And again, this is a 25 year old story. People need to move on.

[thwhtGuardian]

I think that's an overreaction. It's not even close the sleaziest thing in comics.

I mean, really? She was a civilian, and that's not even the worse thing to be done to civilians in comics. Bad things can, and should be able to happen to everyone in comics.

And again, this is a 25 year old story. People need to move on.

Jason Todd getting brutalized on page...and readers being asked to vote? Yeah, I can't really think about many other incidents that are that sleezy, other than what happened to Babs. Even the people involved think that in retrospect what they did was wrong, in both cases. And it doesn't matter how long ago it was, that it was done and that they've done is still sleezy after the fact and the idea that they are now doing it again on film despite knowing it was sleezy is wrong.

[Immortal Weapon]

Jason Todd getting brutalized on page...and readers being asked to vote? Yeah, I can't really think about many other incidents that are that sleezy, other than what happened to Babs. Even the people involved think that in retrospect what they did was wrong, in both cases. And it doesn't matter how long ago it was, that it was done and that they've done is still sleezy after the fact and the idea that they are now doing it again on film despite knowing it was sleezy is wrong.

I can think of a few. Like what happened to Dr. Light after Identity Crisis. Talk about massive character derailment.

[JasonTodd428]

Plenty of people protest, I don't think I'm alone in thinking that stunt was one of the sleaziest things done in comics.

I thought that 1-900 stunt DC pulled with Jason Todd was about as ill advised and sleazy as they come. At the time it smacked of the Bat Office wanting to cover their bums by redirecting the blame for "Robin's" death onto the fans that voted to kill him even though it was the Bat Office that wanted him gone in the first place as I recall. Back then it hacked me off so badly that I went to the comic shop and dropped all my remaining books and went on a hiatus from comics entirely until several years back. Even now it still angers me enough that I would not support an adaptation of A Death in the Family. I also found what happened to Babes in TKJ to fit into the same category as this but I don't really care for the rest of the story as a whole either.

[thwhtGuardian]

I can think of a few. Like what happened to Dr. Light after Identity Crisis. Talk about massive character derailment.

Yeah, what they did to Sue was pretty damn bad too. Though I generally prefer DC over Marvel, I've always thought it odd that DC tend to fridge more female heroes. Or maybe it's not so disproportional but only my relative inexperience with Marvel that makes it seem like that.

[XanatosVanBadass]

I wonder what version they'll use as a template. The old coloring with the yellow oval, or the revised coloring without?

[Vakanai]

Eh, it's no worse than what I've seen in Law and Order SVU, and it isn't like we won't get Babs as either Batgirl or Oracle in the next animated series or whatever. I don't see what the problem is in sticking with a faithful adaptation of this. It's not like it'll be glorifying it, it'll be shown for the horrible act it is and Joker as the horrible awful monster he is for doing it. And hey, if DC/WB does a faithful adaptation of this storyline, then maybe they'll feel compelled to make a Batgirl Year One movie finally to attempt to appease the Barbara fans, and getting that would be awesome.