SDCC Wonder Woman: Earth One Tidbits

[Auguste Dupin]

"Better" is a matter of opinion when it comes to aspects of a story. For me, personally, I'm a male and I have no desire to fly around inside of a plane shaped like a penis, testicles, or prostrate.

Which is ironic since planes, like swords or giant buildings, are usually considered phallic objects, so in a way, you are flying inside planes shapped like penises pretty much all the time.
You guys are taking this quote way too litterally. What should tip you off is when he describes the last phallic symbols on Paradise Island as being the Greek towers. If you've seen Greek Towers before, you would notice that, while they can be seen as "phallic" in in the sense that they're these big vertically erected buildings, they don't literally look like giant d.cks. They are reminiscent of a phallus, but they're not intentionnaly shaped like one.
Same for the plane. It's not going to look like a vagina. It's just that, unlike our pariarchal society whose architecture is all about erected buildings, the Amazons are going for more rounded design and the plane is going to be like that.

[Dr. Poison]

Which is ironic since planes, like swords or giant buildings, are usually considered phallic objects, so in a way, you are flying inside planes shapped like penises pretty much all the time.
You guys are taking this quote way too litterally. What should tip you off is when he describes the last phallic symbols on Paradise Island as being the Greek towers. If you've seen Greek Towers before, you would notice that, while they can be seen as "phallic" in in the sense that they're these big vertically erected buildings, they don't literally look like giant d.cks. They are reminiscent of a phallus, but they're not intentionnaly shaped like one.
Same for the plane. It's not going to look like a vagina. It's just that, unlike our pariarchal society whose architecture is all about erected buildings, the Amazons are going for more rounded design and the plane is going to be like that.

Now that I would be fine with.

[Largo161]

But, with the Amazons putting Diana on trial, I'm concerned that it will put too much focus on women needing to learn to see the value in men.

I'm concerned about this, too. It doesn't seem like a Marston idea at all.

[Darius]

I'm concerned about this, too. It doesn't seem like a Marston idea at all.

I kind of get the impression it's the reverse. She's in trial because she broke Amazon laws about leaving the island and seeing the outside world. Possibly exposing the atrophy of the Amazon society. Not sure men have much to do with it.

EDIT: to be more clear, Marston forced a competition to prove which Amazon was most worthy, sounds like Diana may have circumvented the societal rules of Themyscira and is thus on trial for reasons totally unrelated to men.

[Tayswift]

I'm getting more and more intrigued. I wonder what he's going to do with Steve Trevor.

he will say what he thinks about women. I just hope he won't get new 52'd or jarvis'd

[Awonder]

Which is ironic since planes, like swords or giant buildings, are usually considered phallic objects, so in a way, you are flying inside planes shapped like penises pretty much all the time.
You guys are taking this quote way too litterally. What should tip you off is when he describes the last phallic symbols on Paradise Island as being the Greek towers. If you've seen Greek Towers before, you would notice that, while they can be seen as "phallic" in in the sense that they're these big vertically erected buildings, they don't literally look like giant d.cks. They are reminiscent of a phallus, but they're not intentionnaly shaped like one.
Same for the plane. It's not going to look like a vagina. It's just that, unlike our pariarchal society whose architecture is all about erected buildings, the Amazons are going for more rounded design and the plane is going to be like that.

Swords and planes get their shape much more from practical physics than from any phallic symbolism. Again, I'm all for the Amazons having their own culture that celebrates women - but, I don't think it has to go so far as "we're women, so let's design a plane like a vagina." That sounds overboard to me.

I'm concerned about this, too. It doesn't seem like a Marston idea at all.

Exactly. Morrison seems to want to harken back to and re-explore much of Marston's original ideas, but I don't see 'women needing to learn about the value of men' as a very Marston theme for WW. I dare say the actual story will have much more to it, but thus far, Morrison's comments on this aspect don't quite sit right with me.

I kind of get the impression it's the reverse. She's in trial because she broke Amazon laws about leaving the island and seeing the outside world. Possibly exposing the atrophy of the Amazon society. Not sure men have much to do with it.

EDIT: to be more clear, Marston forced a competition to prove which Amazon was most worthy, sounds like Diana may have circumvented the societal rules of Themyscira and is thus on trial for reasons totally unrelated to men.

I'm not the biggest fan of emphasizing "atrophy" among the Amazons. It still seems like a shift in focus away from flaws in our world to flaws in theirs.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

I'm kind of starting to love the idea of the new invisible plane. "Yup, I'm coming to save the day in my magical see-through vagina jet, and y'all can say anything about it, because I'm Wonder Woman." It's the sort of crazy little affectation a lot of the best DC heroes thrive on (Rocks hurt me when nothing else in the universe can, and my dog has a cape! I uphold my grim pursuit of justice with the aid of my various on-brand crimefighting weapons and a boy in bright colors who does not wear pants! I travel through time on a piece of gym equipment! The forces of the universe are mine to command with a mere act of will, but I could choke to death on a yellow skittle!) that she hasn't had enough of. I don't know how much the concept's exactly an expression of femininity, but I'd say it at least ranks well above the boob window, which I imagine is much easier for artists to objectify than a floating, gigantic anatomically correct vagina that's transparent most of the time anyway.

Seriously, I'm much more excited now that he's talking about his newfound appreciation for the character much beyond the BDSMish roots. I've always loved Wonder Woman in theory, but rarely in practice (of course, I've yet to read most of Simone and Rucka's runs, or any of Marston's, so that's likely as much my own fault as anything else), and I'm really thinking this could be the one that gets me all-in with the character. I at least know enough to tell the Sensation Comics stuff has been a hell of a lot closer to how she should work than the New 52 material, and to hear Morrison of all people is doing something closer to that vein is exciting. Just wish it wasn't Earth One, unless Morrison does Justice League: Earth One down the line that's just 140 pages of her tracking down that Earth's Superman, Batman and Flash (Flash hasn't shown up yet, I guess, but it is gonna be JMS writing him, so...) and bringing them to justice.

[Auguste Dupin]

Swords and planes get their shape much more from practical physics than from any phallic symbolism. Again, I'm all for the Amazons having their own culture that celebrates women - but, I don't think it has to go so far as "we're women, so let's design a plane like a vagina." That sounds overboard to me.

The phallic aspects of swords and planes is one that fiction analysis has accepted decades ago. Since we're talking about fiction -and more importantly about Morrison, who knows about these symbols- it seems relevant to me. Plus frankly, the whole "practicality" argument doesn't work all that well.When you try to create the biggest building in the world, it's not about being practical, it's about creating a symbol of power. Which, in our society, is represented by the biggest erected building you can possibly imagine. Same for swords, or guns. Why do you think big swords and guns are considered cool? I mean, it's not practical at all. It's heavy, and the advantage in terms of powers is neglectable in most cases. So, why? Because phallic symbolism. The bigger your sword, the manlier you are. Just like other potentialy big....stuff, y'know.
Again, phallic and....vaginal, I guess...imagery in fiction is nothing new. Look at the details of the Xenomorph's creation. That thing was intentionally created with huge phallic undertones, because it had a symbollic point (spoilers: the Xenomorph is a big rape metaphore.That's why Ripley is a woman, and I swear to Rao it's true). Morrison is creating a highly advanced all female society, so he uses vaginal imagery to create it. It's par the course, really.
As for the practicality of the vaginal plane:
1) It's fiction we don't care.
2) The whole point of a society being highly advanced is that they do things we haven't figured out yet.

[Agent Z]

Is there going to be any magic or mysticism in this book?

[Largo161]

I'm kind of starting to love the idea of the new invisible plane. "Yup, I'm coming to save the day in my magical see-through vagina jet, and y'all can say anything about it, because I'm Wonder Woman."

My chuckle for the day.

[Agent Z]

I'm kind of starting to love the idea of the new invisible plane. "Yup, I'm coming to save the day in my magical see-through vagina jet, and y'all can say anything about it, because I'm Wonder Woman." It's the sort of crazy little affectation a lot of the best DC heroes thrive on (Rocks hurt me when nothing else in the universe can, and my dog has a cape! I uphold my grim pursuit of justice with the aid of my various on-brand crimefighting weapons and a boy in bright colors who does not wear pants! I travel through time on a piece of gym equipment! The forces of the universe are mine to command with a mere act of will, but I could choke to death on a yellow skittle!) that she hasn't had enough of. I don't know how much the concept's exactly an expression of femininity, but I'd say it at least ranks well above the boob window, which I imagine is much easier for artists to objectify than a floating, gigantic anatomically correct vagina that's transparent most of the time anyway.

Seriously, I'm much more excited now that he's talking about his newfound appreciation for the character much beyond the BDSMish roots. I've always loved Wonder Woman in theory, but rarely in practice (of course, I've yet to read most of Simone and Rucka's runs, or any of Marston's, so that's likely as much my own fault as anything else), and I'm really thinking this could be the one that gets me all-in with the character. I at least know enough to tell the Sensation Comics stuff has been a hell of a lot closer to how she should work than the New 52 material, and to hear Morrison of all people is doing something closer to that vein is exciting. Just wish it wasn't Earth One, unless Morrison does Justice League: Earth One down the line that's just 140 pages of her tracking down that Earth's Superman, Batman and Flash (Flash hasn't shown up yet, I guess, but it is gonna be JMS writing him, so...) and bringing them to justice..

So I've not had a chance to read Superman: Earth One. What exactly is wrong with that version of Clark? Is it another Injustice situation.

[Darius]

I'm not the biggest fan of emphasizing "atrophy" among the Amazons. It still seems like a shift in focus away from flaws in our world to flaws in theirs.

To each their own, personally I like the idea that there are flaws in their society because they have no males. I find it boring beyond words to think that a society is perfect in every way. Different doesn't have to mean better. Marston needed to prove a point and thus used PI as a backdrop of what the world COULD be like if women were leading the way. This story seems to be character driven so I can see why they would show some imperfections in the Amazon culture.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

So I've not had a chance to read Superman: Earth One. What exactly is wrong with that version of Clark? Is it another Injustice situation.

A TON of people disagree with me on this, and certainly if you're interested you might as well check it out, especially if you enjoy JMS' stuff (though I'd get it out of the library first if I were you). But Earth One Clark decides early in the book in the middle of a particularly intense brooding session that he'd rather use his powers to get rich and be happy than help people, and when the alien invasion (that's only there because of his presence) arrives, he spends something like 40 pages internally debating whether to reveal himself as people die around him and he knows the entire world will die if he doesn't, finally bothering once someone he likes is personally threatened. After which, post-saving the world - though actually, he doesn't really, his rocket shows up and gives him the solution - he concocts a false interview with himself as Clark Kent, which is itself filled with lies about himself and why he did what he did, to get the job at the Daily Planet, the only one in the story he couldn't win through his own skills, albeit by unwittingly crushing everyone in his way in every other case. He does some skeevy stuff in Volume 3 too, though by then he seems to be developing something like a real conscience, but Volume 2 is just the absolute bottom of the barrel.

Anyway, that's just my take, and I don't want to derail the thread further. He's a world-class selfish creep.

[Awonder]

The phallic aspects of swords and planes is one that fiction analysis has accepted decades ago. Since we're talking about fiction -and more importantly about Morrison, who knows about these symbols- it seems relevant to me. Plus frankly, the whole "practicality" argument doesn't work all that well.When you try to create the biggest building in the world, it's not about being practical, it's about creating a symbol of power. Which, in our society, is represented by the biggest erected building you can possibly imagine. Same for swords, or guns. Why do you think big swords and guns are considered cool? I mean, it's not practical at all. It's heavy, and the advantage in terms of powers is neglectable in most cases. So, why? Because phallic symbolism. The bigger your sword, the manlier you are. Just like other potentialy big....stuff, y'know.
Again, phallic and....vaginal, I guess...imagery in fiction is nothing new. Look at the details of the Xenomorph's creation. That thing was intentionally created with huge phallic undertones, because it had a symbollic point (spoilers: the Xenomorph is a big rape metaphore.That's why Ripley is a woman, and I swear to Rao it's true). Morrison is creating a highly advanced all female society, so he uses vaginal imagery to create it. It's par the course, really.
As for the practicality of the vaginal plane:
1) It's fiction we don't care.
2) The whole point of a society being highly advanced is that they do things we haven't figured out yet.

1) It may be fiction, but I still care; not so much about the real-world practicality of it, but, about the story.
2) I'm all for them having "things we haven't figured out, yet."

You're absolutely right that phallic imagery is nothing new in fiction; that doesn't mean it's always a good idea. Just because others have done it, doesn't mean I think it's a good idea for a WW story. At this point, it feels like over-the-top, needlessly heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

To each their own, personally I like the idea that there are flaws in their society because they have no males. I find it boring beyond words to think that a society is perfect in every way. Different doesn't have to mean better. Marston needed to prove a point and thus used PI as a backdrop of what the world COULD be like if women were leading the way. This story seems to be character driven so I can see why they would show some imperfections in the Amazon culture.

What's with the weak strawman? Did I say the Amazons can't have flaws, that their "society is perfect in every way"?

[Auguste Dupin]

1) It may be fiction, but I still care; not so much about the real-world practicality of it, but, about the story.
2) I'm all for them having "things we haven't figured out, yet."

You're absolutely right that phallic imagery is nothing new in fiction; that doesn't mean it's always a good idea. Just because others have done it, doesn't mean I think it's a good idea for a WW story. At this point, it feels like over-the-top, needlessly heavy-handed attempt at symbolism.

I have no idea how you can say that when we haven't even seen the plane yet.
And using the opposite of phallic imagery is a good idea for this WW comic, because the whole point of this WW comic is to reexplore the Marston take on WW, with its mixture of female utopia and weird sexual kinks. It's so obviously the entire purpose of the book that saying it's a bad idea is like watching Star Wars and be like "Heh, I don't know about this whole "Jedi" thing."