LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Dante Milton]

I'm kind of torn on Web Weaver. There are very few femme gay men in Marvel comics and almost none that are more than a civilian supporting character, so it's good that we're getting that representation. But if this is the only gay male character in the Spider books, it could feel stereotypical. It's the problem of limited representation and why we need more across the board so this isn't a potential issue. I generally really like Anka's design work so I hope to get a better look at the costume soon.

[Drops Of Venus]

I'm kind of torn on Web Weaver. There are very few femme gay men in Marvel comics and almost none that are more than a civilian supporting character, so it's good that we're getting that representation. But if this is the only gay male character in the Spider books, it could feel stereotypical. It's the problem of limited representation and why we need more across the board so this isn't a potential issue. I generally really like Anka's design work so I hope to get a better look at the costume soon.

Spider-Man had Max Modell as a part of its supporting cast for some time and I don't think anybody had an issue with the fact that the only gay male character at the time was a non-femme gay, so I don't see why I should see Web-Weaver as a problem. I'm not saying that we couldn't use the variety of queer representation, 'cause yeah, we could, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the only gay male character in a story being femme. This is not the 90s anymore when we didn't have many other options. People can read a lot of other books with a lot of other types of queer men today. I'd argue that limiting femme men to only be in the spotlight when masc men also are is more problematic and sends the message that being femme is only socially acceptable if you have a masculine guy to ''even things out''. That shouldn't be the point of representation.

[Dante Milton]

Spider-Man had Max Modell as a part of its supporting cast for some time and I don't think anybody had an issue with the fact that the only gay male character at the time was a non-femme gay, so I don't see why I should see Web-Weaver as a problem.

I never said you should? As someone who only had a very particular kind of "representation" growing up and having to deal with the societal repercussions of that, I personally am wary of a singular kind of gay man being the only representation for a particular franchise. I'm not overly familiar with the Spider books, so if that is not the case then that's great. And others are, of course, free to feel otherwise.

I'm not saying that we couldn't use the variety of queer representation, 'cause yeah, we could, but there is nothing inherently wrong with the only gay male character in a story being femme. This is not the 90s anymore when we didn't have many other options. People can read a lot of other books with a lot of other types of queer men today.

I think that depends on whether the character is a harmful stereotype. If you read a book and the only gay character is a collection of offensive stereotypes, that offensive portrayal isn't suddenly not offensive because there are other books that have better written characters. I'm not saying that Web Weaver will be stereotypical or offensive, or that it is even likely that the character could be, but with limited representation that potential exists.

I'd argue that limiting femme men to only be in the spotlight when masc men also are is more problematic and sends the message that being femme is only socially acceptable if you have a masculine guy to ''even things out''. That shouldn't be the point of representation.

I don't really see how wanting a diversity of representation for queer people in media can lead to that conclusion. But YMMV.

[Drops Of Venus]

I never said you should? As someone who only had a very particular kind of "representation" growing up and having to deal with the societal repercussions of that, I personally am wary of a singular kind of gay man being the only representation for a particular franchise. I'm not overly familiar with the Spider books, so if that is not the case then that's great. And others are, of course, free to feel otherwise.

Good thing Marvel is a larger franchise than just Spider-Man, then. Marvel is known for being a huge shared universe, so anyone thinking that one hero in one Spider-Man miniseries is somehow representative of all the queer characters from that company is just honestly dumb. I'd argue that things are actually better for non-fem heroes, considering the only ones allowed to be in an ongoing book as leading characters these days are Daken and Somnus. The only other ones getting any limited digital content are Iceman, Wiccan and Hulkling. And their most mainstream queer male representation is Deadpool and Loki (who, albeit genderfluid, is depicted as a masculine man 98% of the time). So... yeah, not exactly a lot of room for fem heroes to be stealing the spotlight and making it seem like that's the only representation that exists.

And BTW, I just looked it up and Max Modell was in 77 issues of Dan Slott's run. I can't think of a single fem gay character that has had this many appearances in a flagship Marvel book. People will survive Web-Weaver appearing in what appears to be, so far, a single issue.

I don't really see how wanting a diversity of representation for queer people in media can lead to that conclusion. But YMMV.

I am led to that conclusion because the diversity in this particular type of media (superheroes) is already there, as I just mentioned above, and it already favors the more socially acceptable type of gay representation, yet, feminine queer men getting crumbs is still seen as reason for ''concern''.

[Dante Milton]

Good thing Marvel is a larger franchise than just Spider-Man, then. Marvel is known for being a huge shared universe, so anyone thinking that one hero in one Spider-Man miniseries is somehow representative of all the queer characters from that company is just honestly dumb.

I never claimed that Web Weaver was representative of the entire Marvel publishing catalog, just of the Spider-Man franchise. And I absolutely never made the claim that this character's depiction supersedes the depiction of all other queer characters in every other book ever made by Marvel. Each franchise within the umbrella of Marvel has it's own editorial office, writers, artists, characters, and audience and that should be considered when critically thinking about a piece of work. I think that every individual text should be critically analyzed based on it's content, not by the content of a completely separate text. I guess that makes me dumb.

I'd argue that things are actually better for non-fem heroes, considering the only ones allowed to be in an ongoing book as leading characters these days are Daken and Somnus. The only other ones getting any limited digital content are Iceman, Wiccan and Hulkling. And their most mainstream queer male representation is Deadpool and Loki (who, albeit genderfluid, is depicted as a masculine man 98% of the time). So... yeah, not exactly a lot of room for fem heroes to be stealing the spotlight and making it seem like that's the only representation that exists.

Things are undoubtedly better for more masc gay male characters being represented when considering all of Marvel's books, I never questioned that because it's obvious. I said in my first comment on the subject that it was good and necessary to get a more femme character, this would be especially true for the X-books whose representation is overwhelmingly masc. But this character is in the Spider books, and I was mistakenly under the impression that this is the only gay male character in the Spider books, because that is what the article implies, and attempting to have one character represent every gay Spider-Man reader could lead to those readers feeling that the character is an inaccurate stereotype, and that would be the case for the first and only gay character of a particular franchise regardless of whether that character is femme or masc. I never said anything about spotlight stealing, and once again I never said or implied that this single character is the only one in all of Marvel, and I don't appreciate the insinuation and assumptions you are making about me.

[Magmaster12]

So I take they're just forgetting about the Spider Woman of 8545 who dated the female Sunfire in Exiles.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So I take they're just forgetting about the Spider Woman of 8545 who dated the female Sunfire in Exiles.

Pretty sure she was killed in a throw away panel

[Magmaster12]

Pretty sure she was killed in a throw away panel

Wow Dan Slott's hatred of MJ runs deep.

[shooshoomanjoe]

So who showed up at the door???

[The Cool Thatguy]

Wow Dan Slott's hatred of MJ runs deep.

It was during that Morlun family crossover thing. I can't say it was Slott who did it.

[Dermie]

The Week In Gay:

Amazing Spider-Man #4 - Black Cat appears in this issue

Immortal X-Men #3 - Destiny is the focus of this issue

Knights Of X #3

Marvel's Voices: Pride - obviously plenty of LGBT characters in this one, as well as an article on the history of gay-coded characters at Marvel and 6 new Handbook profiles for various LGBT characters.

New Mutants #26 - Karma and Galura appear

Marvel's Voices: Iceman Infinity Comic #4 - the conclusion to Bobby's arc

[Magnito]

I found the Pride issue boring this year. Didn't think any of the stories were particularly good. I liked DC's better and I almost never like DC better.

On the plus side, I really enjoyed Bobby's infinity comic. I'd like a print version some day. Preferably as part of a trade a d not a single issue.

[Dermie]

The Week In Gay:

Captain America: Symbol Of Truth #2 - Deadpool guest starred

Iron Cat #1 of 5 - This mini would have been the next arc of the BLACK CAT solo book if it hadn't been cancelled. One of Felicia's ex-girlfriends is out for revenge and has stolen the Iron Cat armour from Iron Man!

Sabretooth #4 of 5 - Bling! makes an appearance

Thor: Lightning And Lament #1 - Loki makes an appearance

The Excellent #4

X-Men Red #4 - Hulkling has a small appearance

Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic #5 - Anthony Oliveira's Young Avengers are begins here!

Iron Man/Hellcat Annual #1 - Daimon Hellstorm sort-of makes an appearance.

[legion_quest]

The Week In Gay:

Captain America: Symbol Of Truth #2 - Deadpool guest starred

Iron Cat #1 of 5 - This mini would have been the next arc of the BLACK CAT solo book if it hadn't been cancelled. One of Felicia's ex-girlfriends is out for revenge and has stolen the Iron Cat armour from Iron Man!

Sabretooth #4 of 5 - Bling! makes an appearance

Thor: Lightning And Lament #1 - Loki makes an appearance

The Excellent #4

X-Men Red #4 - Hulkling has a small appearance

Marvel's Voices Infinity Comic #5 - Anthony Oliveira's Young Avengers are begins here!

Iron Man/Hellcat Annual #1 - Daimon Hellstorm sort-of makes an appearance.

And they're still using that godawful bald, goatee mess of a redesign.

Someone needs to undo that and give him back his cute devil hair.

[Dermie]

And they're still using that godawful bald, goatee mess of a redesign.

Someone needs to undo that and give him back his cute devil hair.

Technically he didn't even have the bald-with-goatee look here either. lol

But I agree, I am not a fan of his bald look either and would prefer he go back to his previous design.