View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    26 3.53%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.63%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    20 2.72%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    42 5.71%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    35 4.76%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    39 5.30%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    43 5.84%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    62 8.42%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    38 5.16%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    108 14.67%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    60 8.15%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    21 2.85%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    36 4.89%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    46 6.25%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    148 20.11%
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  1. #9511
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    As it currently stands, I see Betsy as bi (but with Warren as her 'one'), while Mystique is actually a lesbian, but only for Destiny. Beyond that, she'll sleep with men, but only for pleasure, emotion is totally reserved for Irene. Does that has a label?
    Something like homoromantic I guess? But when I google that I just see it as part of bisexuality and mostly asexuality, like romantic attraction without a sexual one.

  2. #9512

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    Quote Originally Posted by legion_quest View Post
    As it currently stands, I see Betsy as bi (but with Warren as her 'one'), while Mystique is actually a lesbian, but only for Destiny. Beyond that, she'll sleep with men, but only for pleasure, emotion is totally reserved for Irene. Does that has a label?
    The closest term I can come up with to what you're thinking of is demiromantic. "Little or no capacity to experience romantic attraction until a strong sexual or emotional connection is formed with another individual, often within a sexual relationship." Taken from this article. While I could definitely see her as demiromantic, I would note that I don't believe Irene is the only person she's been in love with. I think she was probably in love with Forge, when they were an item.

    As for Psylocke, I think she's probably bi, though primarily het. Most likely, she's not particularly attracted to women, but she's not a "hard straight," so to speak. She wouldn't be likely to pursue a woman, but if a woman asked her out, she'd be open to it.

  3. #9513
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Isn't Destiny like the love of Mystique's life? Or the closest she got to that at least. I don't think there's much to debate about her.
    Yeah it's super weird. I know they're Bi but I know there was at least debate around Psylocke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
    More of this sort of thing
    And IIRC, both Logan and Nightcrawler aren't dating anyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Mystique is awkward for Rogue. Just, like, Mystique's existence. I feel like Mystique hooking up with Psylocke would make things less awkward for Rogue. "Oh, good, Betsy can deal with how screwed-up Mystique is. Sorry, Betsy, I want nothing to do with that mess, it's all yours."
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  4. #9514
    Astonishing Member legion_quest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    The closest term I can come up with to what you're thinking of is demiromantic. "Little or no capacity to experience romantic attraction until a strong sexual or emotional connection is formed with another individual, often within a sexual relationship." Taken from this article. While I could definitely see her as demiromantic, I would note that I don't believe Irene is the only person she's been in love with. I think she was probably in love with Forge, when they were an item.

    As for Psylocke, I think she's probably bi, though primarily het. Most likely, she's not particularly attracted to women, but she's not a "hard straight," so to speak. She wouldn't be likely to pursue a woman, but if a woman asked her out, she'd be open to it.
    Demi! Yes, that was the name I was actually trying to remember when I asked if there was one!

    That's how I see Mystique anyway.

    I had forgotten about Forge, you may have a point, but I prefer thinking of her love for Irene being special.
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  5. #9515
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    I don't see Betsy as bi because she showed no interest in women before or since Cluster, and that was a special case, far closer to one crazy weekend in Vegas than anything long term so I don't think she'd accept if another woman asked her out or anything like that...

    As for Mystique, I think that she's fully bi, she can fall in love with either men or women but her one true love is Destiny, I think that she did love Forge and maybe that played a role in how that all went down...

    Logan and Kurt aren't bi either despite what any writer thought about them decades ago...

  6. #9516
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I don't see Betsy as bi because she showed no interest in women before or since Cluster, and that was a special case, far closer to one crazy weekend in Vegas than anything long term so I don't think she'd accept if another woman asked her out or anything like that...

    As for Mystique, I think that she's fully bi, she can fall in love with either men or women but her one true love is Destiny, I think that she did love Forge and maybe that played a role in how that all went down...

    Logan and Kurt aren't bi either despite what any writer thought about them decades ago...
    Claremont himself says he sees Logan as bisexual. Also this is an LGBT APPRECIATION thread, so please try and remember that when phrasing your responses. You're verging on "non-appreciating" of LGBT inclusion. Cheers
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  7. #9517
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    I was more going by what was written, as for the appreciation thread, I'm not knocking the characters that actually are in the LGBT spectrum, all that I'm saying is that I don't see Psylocke as one of them...

  8. #9518

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I was more going by what was written, as for the appreciation thread, I'm not knocking the characters that actually are in the LGBT spectrum, all that I'm saying is that I don't see Psylocke as one of them...
    At this point, I'd say there's not enough hard evidence to decide if Psylocke's bisexual or just straight with an exception. But there's arguably enough subtext, over the years, that I would argue she's a het-leaning bisexual. She prefers men, but it's likely she is also attracted to women, and would be open to dating one.

  9. #9519
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    But I just don't see a woman that she had first dated as a man left in the Marvel U that would work with that view though...

  10. #9520
    Ultimate Member t hedge coke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    But I just don't see a woman that she had first dated as a man left in the Marvel U that would work with that view though...
    You seem to have more trouble with it than she did, though.
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  11. #9521

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    But I just don't see a woman that she had first dated as a man left in the Marvel U that would work with that view though...
    Right, because the fact that she had a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman, who identified as a woman, who was biologically a woman, definitely couldn't have resulted in Psylocke deciding that she actually does like women. Nope, absolutely no possible way that could be the case.

    But let's actually go deeper on this. Psylocke has never said, on-panel, that she identifies as straight, or that Cluster was the first woman she was intimate with. So it's actually entirely possible that she's always identified as bi and just never happened to hook up with a woman prior to Cluster. It's also possible she did hook up with women before Cluster, and we just never saw it, because it happened during periods where she wasn't appearing in comics. Maybe before her introduction in Captain Marvel's comics, when she was a model and a spy. It would be incredibly easy for a writer to toss that retcon in, and it wouldn't contradict anything we've ever seen or been told about her.

    Or maybe she did always identify as straight. Never gave any serious thought before to hooking up with a girl. Then she hooks up with Cluster, and finds, hey, the female body is actually a lot of fun, and she starts looking at women differently than she did before. And maybe she doesn't go out looking for a woman to hook up with, but if a woman approaches her, she doesn't say no.

    I've argued in the past that there's not enough solid on-panel evidence to say she's bi rather than straight-with-an-exception. But I also think there's been enough subtext to believe she's probably on the bi spectrum. And I've also said she should have another relationship with a woman just to make it clear that she's bi. (It's part of why I like the idea of Psylocke/Mystique hate-sex so much.)

  12. #9522
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    Right, because the fact that she had a romantic and sexual relationship with a woman, who identified as a woman, who was biologically a woman, definitely couldn't have resulted in Psylocke deciding that she actually does like women. Nope, absolutely no possible way that could be the case.
    Eh. Was Cluster's status ever put so concretely?

    Wasn't she just the "nice" part of Fantomex, that somehow materialized as a female human? (I didn't read Hopeless' awful run)

    The whole situation is rather icky, IMO.
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  13. #9523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Eh. Was Cluster's status ever put so concretely?

    Wasn't she just the "nice" part of Fantomex, that somehow materialized as a female human? (I didn't read Hopeless' awful run)
    Well, we are sure that she wasnt a psychic illusion or a hologram.

  14. #9524
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    Quote Originally Posted by t hedge coke View Post
    You seem to have more trouble with it than she did, though.
    Well I'm an actual human and Betsy is a character in a comic that will believe what the writer wants her to believe and have trouble with what the writer wants her to have trouble with, she doesn't have a mind of her own...so she didn't have a problem with it because the writer didn't want her to so it's a bit subjective there...as for Cluster...she was a part of Fantomex made real, not sure why made into female form...that Fantomex then at the very least kissed and probably had sex with...

    It's far more likely that unless Cluster suddenly showed up and could wash away her past I don't see Betsy coming out as bi as there's been nothing to suggest that she is, for better or worse you identify a character as straight if it's not stated otherwise and given their history...

  15. #9525

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Eh. Was Cluster's status ever put so concretely?

    Wasn't she just the "nice" part of Fantomex, that somehow materialized as a female human? (I didn't read Hopeless' awful run)

    The whole situation is rather icky, IMO.
    Well, yeah, Cluster was pretty clearly female. She was the "nice" side of Fantomex, and also the feminine side. That was kinda the point. And personally, I loved Humphries' run. (It was Sam Humphries who wrote that run, not Dennis Hopeless.) It was weird and cool. I really, really enjoyed that whole run.

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Well I'm an actual human and Betsy is a character in a comic that will believe what the writer wants her to believe and have trouble with what the writer wants her to have trouble with, she doesn't have a mind of her own...so she didn't have a problem with it because the writer didn't want her to so it's a bit subjective there...as for Cluster...she was a part of Fantomex made real, not sure why made into female form...that Fantomex then at the very least kissed and probably had sex with...

    It's far more likely that unless Cluster suddenly showed up and could wash away her past I don't see Betsy coming out as bi as there's been nothing to suggest that she is, for better or worse you identify a character as straight if it's not stated otherwise and given their history...
    Like I said, Psylocke's had subtext. As with so many X-characters, but still, it's been there. And it would be so easy for a writer to just have her say, "Yeah, I'm bi." Also, I'm not sure I agree with "assume straight until proven otherwise." That feels wrong to me. Like, I assume Illyana's a lesbian. I assume Storm's pansexual. I assume Gambit's bi. Because there's been enough hints and subtext to justify those assumptions, even if they haven't been made canon (yet).

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