LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Star_Jammer]

Having only read MAC's first couple appearances in The Ultimates and YA I am. But apparently her solo stuff is SUPER cringe worthy (??) Soooo i hope they present to general audience....esp kids the BadAss MAC from her earlier debut
Itll be a good way diversify the pool of 'cool superheroes' they can admire

Yes. Give me Gillen or Ewing MAC (badass teleporting lesbian warrior woman) and I’m all in.

Give me Rivera MAC (“Holy menstruation, Prodigy!”) and...well...I guess I just won’t enjoy it.

[legion_quest]

Gabby Rivera tried to write something that was a unique viewpoint, as a time when Marvel was really trying to do that with a lot of books; the whole SJW/empowerment period that had some great books at the same time as having a few that just didnt hit, or hit too hard on the nose.

America didnt so much as hit as fly in to you so hard it knocked your nose clean off, and not in a good way.

Rivera tried to do something different with a superhero character, and should be applauded for giving it a go, but I dont know that she was ready as a writer or that she was edited very well, and the book truly sucked.

Do not judge MAC by that book.

[Fokken]

Gabby Rivera tried to write something that was a unique viewpoint, as a time when Marvel was really trying to do that with a lot of books; the whole SJW/empowerment period that had some great books at the same time as having a few that just didnt hit, or hit too hard on the nose.

America didnt so much as hit as fly in to you so hard it knocked your nose clean off, and not in a good way.

Rivera tried to do something different with a superhero character, and should be applauded for giving it a go, but I dont know that she was ready as a writer or that she was edited very well, and the book truly sucked.

Do not judge MAC by that book.

Taking risks and stretching creative muscles is all absolutely commendable.
What's NOT is dismissing/ignoring character details and history to further a poorly fleshed out narrative. If a nigh-invulnerable, flying, powerhouse like Chavez can be taken out by a common syringe or needs her Archer bestie to keep the vehicle steady for her to land? C'mon. Trying to craft a unique vocabulary for a character is pretty common (the menstruation nonsense) but doesn't ALWAYS work. I applaud the intention but the execution fell flat. Expanding on the support characters by way of introducing new ones is also very common but again, the narrative fell flat when the ending of one relationship (Lisa) makes little/no sense, simply to insert an original (Magdalena).
Overall the book was far too overt in the soapboxing and IMHO diminished the value and significance of the messages it was attempting to spotlight.

I'm still sour over it, sorry gang.
I did really enjoy her subsequent inclusion in the West Coast Avengers and VERY MUCH appreciate and applaud the eventual romantic relationship she now shares with Ramone.

MAC's writers for me are: Ewing > Thompson > Gillen (but in Gillen's defense, the other writers have the benefit of writing her sans "oooh mysterious we can't share too much")

[Garbledarber]

Having only read MAC's first couple appearances in The Ultimates and YA I am. But apparently her solo stuff is SUPER cringe worthy (??) Soooo i hope they present to general audience....esp kids the BadAss MAC from her earlier debut
Itll be a good way diversify the pool of 'cool superheroes' they can admire

Rivera’s America series might be the worst series Marvel has published in recent years.

[Fokken]

Rivera’s America series might be the worst series Marvel has published in recent years.

Its SINGULAR saving grace was the clever explanation to her Latinx cultural immersion after vacating the Utopian Parallel.

...and then she just chucked all that value out the window when she decided "Never mind, Just kidding, she's from a LATINX PLANET instead! BOOP!"

[Riv86672]

Rivera’s America series might be the worst series Marvel has published in recent years.

Agreed.
I was super excited about that character getting her own book. Then I read it.

[Snoop Dogg]

Rivera’s America series might be the worst series Marvel has published in recent years.

You know nothing of pain.

[Triniking1234]

Love it. Maybe Whitley should write MAC.

I need a break from Whitley writing the Marvel Lesbians. Let Eve Ewing write YA.

[Dermie]

Rivera tried to do something different with a superhero character, and should be applauded for giving it a go, but I dont know that she was ready as a writer or that she was edited very well, and the book truly sucked.

She seemed to forget (or not care) that she was writing an established character with an established personality. I'm not entirely sure who Rivera was writing in that series, but it was not Miss America Chavez.

[Anduinel]

She seemed to forget (or not care) that she was writing an established character with an established personality. I'm not entirely sure who Rivera was writing in that series, but it was not Miss America Chavez.

Exactly. And, really, I put almost as much blame on the editors as on the writer in this case. As far as I could find, this was Rivera's first foray into comics and it was pretty obvious that her work wasn't even being given a very close look - even if we put aside MAC not being written consistent with previous characterization, there was a lack of logic and consistency within the series itself. Bad job all around.

[H-E-D]

I did appreciate that she didn't shy away from the craziness of comics in favor of a more grounded approach like you often get from a novelist taking on a first comic.

[Drops Of Venus]

Sooo, we've been so busy talking about Eternals that I don't think anyone thought of pointing out some new MCU projects that could give us LGBTQ representation: Moon Knight with Frenchie and Ms. Marvel with Zoe. Not sure about Zoe, but I'm expecting Frenchie to play a significant supporting role in the MK show, due to their history together. I hope the show explores Frenchie's feelings for Marc in a more fleshed out way than the comics did.

Also, She-Hulk is not really known for particular LGBTQ representations (I know she had a gay assistant in her last solo series, but I'm not sure if they're taking any inspiration from that), but I would love if the show had some, just because Shulk is a low-key queer icon on social media for some reason. I've been seeing sooo many people suggesting trans actresses to play her lately, for example.

[legion_quest]

Sooo, we've been so busy talking about Eternals that I don't think anyone thought of pointing out some new MCU projects that could give us LGBTQ representation: Moon Knight with Frenchie and Ms. Marvel with Zoe. Not sure about Zoe, but I'm expecting Frenchie to play a significant supporting role in the MK show, due to their history together. I hope the show explores Frenchie's feelings for Marc in a more fleshed out way than the comics did.

Also, She-Hulk is not really known for particular LGBTQ representations (I know she had a gay assistant in her last solo series, but I'm not sure if they're taking any inspiration from that), but I would love if the show had some, just because Shulk is a low-key queer icon on social media for some reason. I've been seeing sooo many people suggesting trans actresses to play her lately, for example.

This is one of those things where I'm not sure if that's problematic or not?

[CRaymond]

This is one of those things where I'm not sure if that's problematic or not?

This is silly.

I’m sure they wouldn’t have entertained the idea of a She-Hulk show if they hadn’t mastered the process that gave us Hulk, Smart Hulk, and Thanos.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Sooo, we've been so busy talking about Eternals that I don't think anyone thought of pointing out some new MCU projects that could give us LGBTQ representation: Moon Knight with Frenchie and Ms. Marvel with Zoe. Not sure about Zoe, but I'm expecting Frenchie to play a significant supporting role in the MK show, due to their history together. I hope the show explores Frenchie's feelings for Marc in a more fleshed out way than the comics did.

Also, She-Hulk is not really known for particular LGBTQ representations (I know she had a gay assistant in her last solo series, but I'm not sure if they're taking any inspiration from that), but I would love if the show had some, just because Shulk is a low-key queer icon on social media for some reason. I've been seeing sooo many people suggesting trans actresses to play her lately, for example.

That's a very good point. I have been hoping that we see some LGBT characters in the Disney+ shows, but I was also concerned that they might include LGBT people in the tv shows but not the movies. Fortunately the news about The Eternals and Thor: Love & Thunder has mostly assuaged those concerns.

I hope Frenchie is a big part of the Moon Knight show and that he's more than just a butler. I know he's supposed to be the Alfred to Moon Knight's Batman but I'm hoping he gets to do more than just drive Moon Knight around.

As for the She-Hulk thing I can totally see where it could potentially be problematic, but I've really been struggling with how to phrase my thoughts on this so people will understand. Ultimately though it has to do with She-Hulk being a large, muscular woman and preconceptions about trans-women's bodies. I honestly think it's probably a bad idea to cast trans actress in that role.