LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[legion_quest]

I think it's forced as well. It may have been in her original pitch, but that doesnt make it less forced.

Still, better a visible relationship than the one she and Julie Power had, where we only saw it briefly the one time a year they showed up somewhere together.

[Personamanx]

I just can't see that. When compared to basically any other relationship found in the book's history Karolina, and Nico's relationship (if we're not jumping the gun on that) is the only one that has had much in the way of any solid build up. It's certainly the only one where one character was clearly interested in the other before just jumping into making out.

[Drops Of Venus]

I just can't see that. When compared to basically any other relationship found in the book's history Karolina, and Nico's relationship (if we're not jumping the gun on that) is the only one that has had much in the way of any solid build up. It's certainly the only one where one character was clearly interested in the other before just jumping into making out.

While I don't think the relationship was forced, I also don't feel like there was all that much of a solid build up to it before this book, tbh. There was a big space between the original BKV run and Rowell's run, and during all that time, I don't feel like any writer made a good job at convincing the audience Nico was into Karolina until Rowell came along and gave it a little nudge. I, personally, was never under that impression up until this book. I believe that might be the reason why some people feel like it's forced; it's not the kind of development that was on everyone's radar, and I know a lot of people have only started to see Nico as queer because of the TV show (which also explains why some people think of synergy, even though I don't believe it is based on what the creative team has said about it).

[Personamanx]

While I don't think the relationship was forced, I also don't feel like there was all that much of a solid build up to it before this book, tbh. There was a big space between the original BKV run and Rowell's run, and during all that time, I don't feel like any writer made a good job at convincing the audience Nico was into Karolina until Rowell came along and gave it a little nudge. I, personally, was never under that impression up until this book. I believe that might be the reason why some people feel like it's forced; it's not the kind of development that was on everyone's radar, and I know a lot of people have only started to see Nico as queer because of the TV show (which also explains why some people think of synergy, even though I don't believe it is based on what the creative team has said about it).

I suppose it would depend on what one considers build up. Personally I think Nico being interested in Karolina was a possibility for the same reasons Karolina did. The hand holding, the near constant praise, and the swearing off boys. None of those things are necessarily indicative of anything more than friendship but it's not hard to read into. Nico's reaction to Karolina's interest was largely surprise, and uncertainty as to how she felt. I think Nico's "I don't know" opened up the possibility then, and there. That's not even getting into their interactions after she returns from space with Xavin.

Don't get me wrong, it's largely an interpretation of character interaction. But as Runaways has never* been a book to give an exact idea as to what a character is feeling/thinking, interpretation is important. It's not a Chris Claremont book after all.

Honestly, I would have been fine if they chose not to run with it in the new series but I just thought this was well executed. I have no idea where it's headed, but I have complete confidence in the fact that it will be a satisfying read.

*By which I mean prior to the current volume. Rowell's third person captioning in every issue have been fairly omniscient in regards to how the characters are feeling.

[Wiccan]

While I don't think the relationship was forced, I also don't feel like there was all that much of a solid build up to it before this book, tbh. There was a big space between the original BKV run and Rowell's run, and during all that time, I don't feel like any writer made a good job at convincing the audience Nico was into Karolina until Rowell came along and gave it a little nudge. I, personally, was never under that impression up until this book. I believe that might be the reason why some people feel like it's forced; it's not the kind of development that was on everyone's radar, and I know a lot of people have only started to see Nico as queer because of the TV show (which also explains why some people think of synergy, even though I don't believe it is based on what the creative team has said about it).

No, the real reason people think it's forced it's because they ship Karolina and/or Nico with other people, plain and simple tbh.

[Frontier]

Also, I read on Twitter a while back that it was confirmed during SDCC that she was going to be gay in the animation. Not sure if this checks out, but great to hear if it does.

It would be nice to see a gay character in a Marvel cartoon have their sexuality actually acknowledged (looking at you Max Modell, Ja Kyree, and Phyla-Vell).

[Drops Of Venus]

I suppose it would depend on what one considers build up. Personally I think Nico being interested in Karolina was a possibility for the same reasons Karolina did. The hand holding, the near constant praise, and the swearing off boys. None of those things are necessarily indicative of anything more than friendship but it's not hard to read into. Nico's reaction to Karolina's interest was largely surprise, and uncertainty as to how she felt. I think Nico's "I don't know" opened up the possibility then, and there. That's not even getting into their interactions after she returns from space with Xavin.

Don't get me wrong, it's largely an interpretation of character interaction. But as Runaways has never* been a book to give an exact idea as to what a character is feeling/thinking, interpretation is important. It's not a Chris Claremont book after all.

Honestly, I would have been fine if they chose not to run with it in the new series but I just thought this was well executed. I have no idea where it's headed, but I have complete confidence in the fact that it will be a satisfying read.

*By which I mean prior to the current volume. Rowell's third person captioning in every issue have been fairly omniscient in regards to how the characters are feeling.

We can agree on that one: everything comes down to interpretation. I guess the reason why I never particularly interpreted Nico feeling attracted to Karolina was because the way she acted towards her was not different at all from the way a lot of straight girls act towards their girl friends. Girls tend to be a lot more open-minded when it comes to showing affection for each other, so Nico just being affectionate towards Karolina didn't exactly register on my gaydar, and that's where I blame previous writers, as I think they could've done a more substantial job at portraying her feelings. I wasn't shocked when Rainbow went there, though, 'cause I've been in fandom long enough to have that possibility in the back of my mind, even though I didn't particularly see it myself. Anyway, none of that past stuff matters anyway, 'cause the cat's out of the bag now and I'm glad we have another character to add to our LGBTQ list.

No, the real reason people think it's forced it's because they ship Karolina and/or Nico with other people, plain and simple tbh.

Well, that's why I said ''some people''. I realize some people are solely motivated by shipping reasons, but I do think some people genuinely were taken by surprise because they thought that story ''came out of nowhere''. Significant changes and revelations about existing characters will always be polarizing.

[Wiccan]

Well, that's why I said ''some people''. I realize some people are solely motivated by shipping reasons, but I do think some people genuinely were taken by surprise because they thought that story ''came out of nowhere''. Significant changes and revelations about existing characters will always be polarizing.

People who don't care about LGBT representation or don't want for it to exist? Sure, they're always gonna think it's out of nowhere, unless the character was quickly established as LGBT on their first years. But people who care and want that, like most on this thread? I really really doubt it has really much to do with anything but shipping Karolina with Xavin or Julie instead(and there's that one weirdo Alex/Nico stan, but he doesn't actually post here lol).

What can even be considered "out of nowhere"? If that means simply "those characters have been here for some years and have interacted without being a couple", isn't like... Most couples/ships in comics "out of nowhere"? Some people don't like the ship, sure, fair. Maybe they prefer other ships, or they don't like how their story was written, or they don't like one of the characters individually. I won't agree with it, yeah, but I can understand/respect it. But stuff like "forced", "synergy", "makes no sense" feels like just such generic bullshit to act like what you prefer is more valid on some sort of technical/objective level.

[Drops Of Venus]

People who don't care about LGBT representation or don't want for it to exist? Sure, they're always gonna think it's out of nowhere, unless the character was quickly established as LGBT on their first years. But people who care and want that, like most on this thread? I really really doubt it has really much to do with anything but shipping Karolina with Xavin or Julie instead(and there's that one weirdo Alex/Nico stan, but he doesn't actually post here lol).

What can even be considered "out of nowhere"? If that means simply "those characters have been here for some years and have interacted without being a couple", isn't like... Most couples/ships in comics "out of nowhere"? Some people don't like the ship, sure, fair. Maybe they prefer other ships, or they don't like how their story was written, or they don't like one of the characters individually. I won't agree with it, yeah, but I can understand/respect it. But stuff like "forced", "synergy", "makes no sense" feels like just such generic bullshit to act like what you prefer is more valid on some sort of technical/objective level.

Well, I can't speak for everyone in the fandom, so if anyone who hates the pairing wants to elaborate on why, be my guest.

As for ''out of nowhere'', I actually think it's not that different from instances we had with Nico in the past. I'm sure a lot of people thought Nico/Chase, Nico/Victor and even Nico/ressurrected Alex was ''out of nowhere'' and disliked the idea because it didn't make sense for them. I think Nico's bad history with romantic relationships doesn't exactly help some people see any new relationship for her in a good light.

[Sutekh]

Nico's kind of a hot mess, and has pretty much always been desperate to be loved, so I'm more interested in how the (inevitable?) breakup is going to affect the group dynamic.

[Drops Of Venus]

Nico's kind of a hot mess, and has pretty much always been desperate to be loved, so I'm more interested in how the (inevitable?) breakup is going to affect the group dynamic.

This is what I'm talking about. Some fans have so little faith in the relationship because of Nico alone, and I don't necessarily blame them for that. Maybe Rainbow will be the one to break the ''curse'' and set her straight (well, not THAT kind of straight, obviously ), but then again, this is comics and characters keep taking steps back all the time. Who can guarantee the next writer won't just revert her to her screw-up self again? Which is why I don't mind Deanoru, but I'm not getting invested in it either.

Funnily enough, this song was playing while I was typing this, which should totally be Nico's anthem. LOL

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https://www.newsarama.com/41657-over...eoff-shaw.html

Disappointed at the lack of Phyla-Vell in this, but oh well, at least Moondragon is present. Fingers crossed she'll be a part of the new team.

[Beetle]

https://www.newsarama.com/41657-over...eoff-shaw.html

Disappointed at the lack of Phyla-Vell in this, but oh well, at least Moondragon is present. Fingers crossed she'll be a part of the new team.

I'm pretty sure that's the design of the alternate reality Phyla from Infinity Countdown #4 on the far right beside Richard Rider.

Either the artist just wanted to include the character and used her most recent appearance as reference, or that version is going to return

[Dermie]

I'm pretty sure that's the design of the alternate reality Phyla from Infinity Countdown #4 on the far right beside Richard Rider.

Either the artist just wanted to include the character and used her most recent appearance as reference, or that version is going to return

Yeah, I agree--that looks like the new Phyla design, minus the cape. So for LGBT characters this image gives us Moondragon, Phyla and Starfox. Not too bad, considering.

The question is, what does this image mean for the actual content of the series? After all, a cast this huge would be rather unwieldy on an ongoing basis--its a "team" that would be made up of at least 4 separate teams merged into one, with additional extras thrown in alongside!

The other thing is that these characters don't all belong together. The original/classic Guardians are from the 31st century. Cosmic Ghost Rider is from another alternate future. The version of Phyla shown here is from another universe. Presumably the other characters shown are the versions we are used to from modern day 616/Prime/whatever continuity.

Its an intriguing image...but we certainly need a lot more information to understand what its supposed to mean.

[Drops Of Venus]

I'm pretty sure that's the design of the alternate reality Phyla from Infinity Countdown #4 on the far right beside Richard Rider.

Either the artist just wanted to include the character and used her most recent appearance as reference, or that version is going to return

I hadn't even noticed that. Honestly, I'm not really here for an AU Phyla. We've been waiting and asking for her to come back for so long now, the least we deserve is the real thing. And if they make this version stick around, then it's just another reason for original Phyla to stay dead. So, yeah, not really excited for this... unless we find out that is our Phyla with a new design.

[Beetle]

To be fair even "our Phyla" was kinda from an AU, Genis rewrote reality and made her with a retroactive history. So she's not technically originally from 616.

I do hope it is just a redesign for "our Phyla" though, it's not a bad look. And she was still using her trademark sword from when she was Quasar, so that was neat.