LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Drops Of Venus]

I mean there's a long history of actual genderqueer and even transgender people who were involved in drag performances (such as Marsha P. Johnson), so I don't see that as inherently problematic unless it's literally played as "Loki is a man and it's funny that he's in women's clothing." Particularly when the last few years have been rather consistent in portraying Loki as genderfluid.

I don't think it's inherently problematic either. I was just pointing out that a lot of the general audience don't really get Loki's gender identity (because a lot of the general audience don't even get what being genderqueer is in the first place), so potraying him as a drag queen could end up sending the wrong message, depending on how you do it. But looking into Oliveira, he seems to be pretty ''woke'' in terms of LGBTQ issues, so I guess this shouldn't be an issue with him.

BTW, he also tweeted this after his official announcement for the story, which sounds like he might be interested in writing a proper Wiccan & Hulkling book. Fingers crossed!

[Fokken]

BTW, he also tweeted this after his official announcement for the story, which sounds like he might be interested in writing a proper Wiccan & Hulkling book. Fingers crossed!

When this little addition to the War of Realms event was announced, I went full defense mode. Shields up. Caution lights lit. Who is this guy? What is this story? Is this gonna be nonsense? Should I even allow myself to feel???

Upon delving into the man's post-announcement twitter feed, I'm officially gathering matches, bed sheets, twigs, whatever I can burn to keep this fire HOT & LIT.
Yes, this is JUST a blip on the WoR radar and yes its gonna be BRIEF because the issue has 3-4(?) other stories being featured, but that twitter content has me hyped.

So until then I'm just gonna be minding my business, embroidering the words "I am obsessed with anxious soft goth boys and their enormous golden retriever boyfriends" into all of my underpants.
Y'all bettah bring whatever content the internet feeds you to the forefront here in the thread because ah'ma start YELLING.

[legion_quest]

Are we going to talk about the current LGBT+ anger regarding Uncanny X-Men #17?

I see how people are angry, but personally, I felt this was a good way to bring attention to a subject without having to fridge an actual Trans character

[Fokken]

Are we going to talk about the current LGBT+ anger regarding Uncanny X-Men #17?

I see how people are angry, but personally, I felt this was a good way to bring attention to a subject without having to fridge an actual Trans character

My shop was sold out. I'm unaware of any controversy. I'm aware that spoilers:

Rahne

end of spoilers was killed by a group of regular dudes(?) and the X-Men had a funeral and...that's it.

[Anduinel]

My shop was sold out. I'm unaware of any controversy. I'm aware that spoilers:

Rahne

end of spoilers was killed by a group of regular dudes(?) and the X-Men had a funeral and...that's it.

Here's the rundown: https://www.comicsbeat.com/uncanny-x...-panic-murder/

[legion_quest]

That writer annoys me more than the book.

"I am over sensitive and furious about it so everyone and everything must change to make sure my fragile sensibilities aren't hurt or challenged!" is how it reads to me.

Which is a shame, as behind the forehead shielding is a genuine point, but the article writer is so ott and unobjective, the point is lost in outrage

[Tycon]

Yeah, I can imagine a trans person would be mad at this issue that completely butchers trans struggles under an outdated mutant metaphor.

[Fokken]

That writer annoys me more than the book.

"I am over sensitive and furious about it so everyone and everything must change to make sure my fragile sensibilities aren't hurt or challenged!" is how it reads to me.

Which is a shame, as behind the forehead shielding is a genuine point, but the article writer is so ott and unobjective, the point is lost in outrage

I can't help but wonder, speaking to the "Say her name" detail of the story (again I haven't read it, but still) if Rosenberg was just WRITING WOLVERINE rather than citing an existing and tragic real world hashtag movement. I understand that clearly this "Say her name" hashtag exists and has meaning, but its not as if those words are exclusive to said hashtag. I dunno. I believe myself to be a very sensitive individual, but perhaps my not being Trans skews my perception of this?
I understand the parallels being drawn, and IF Rosenberg WAS consciously drawing these parallels in the narrative, the reality is that these horrific situations do happen, and there must be value (albeit tragic value) to bringing those situations to audiences to raise awareness? I dunno. I'm trying, as a gay man, to find the connective tissue in tragic events involving gay men in film, media, etc that although upsetting address the severity of the experience of what it is to be "other" and the real danger that exists out in the world as an "other".

But perhaps I'm speaking out of turn. I feel like its very possible some of the blame/shame over the dialogue chosen may be too much? Words have power. Words have meaning. But sometimes we choose words that have multiple meaning. And I can't help feeling that this is the case with Wolverine's dialogue, specifically. And that those words aren't necessarily meant to be buzzwords and definitely not meant to offend.

And lastly, a writer is not his/her character(s).

[Beetle]

The mutants metaphor has its limits, that's become increasingly obvious over the years. Especially when it's mostly these conventionally attractive white able bodied folks suffering from discrimination and getting all of the focus and pathos in the story while most of the racial minorities and queer characters are little more than background fodder.

If readers can't make the connection between the story and trans panic, then Rosenberg either didn't intend it or he should have made it more explicit. If he actually wanted to shine a light on a real life issue like trans panic then he could have done more.

[Mackandal]

I am trans.

I don't understand what the point of X-Men even is if writers aren't allowed to spotlight and shame real oppression.

A cis character is transphobically victimised- bad because they're not vulnerable in real life. A trans character is transphobically victimised- very bad because it's triggering. So then the only option left is to pretend there is no conflict and that everyone is equal. So then why have mutants at all?

The character in question isn't trans. So when Rosenberg writes her being murdered for being a "trap", no trans woman has to suffer. This scene won't contribute to the perception of trans women. Trans women don't have to literally see themselves die. That's why I was relatively unaffected reading it, and only became triggered reading the discourse hammering home that this scene depicts us suffering, and we are always suffering. Trans women aren't the victims on page. But the absurdity of the Panic reasoning, the evil of her murderers, the injustice, that is conveyed. I would have thought this scene was the best of both worlds.

I don't know what these people want, beyond actual and positive trans rep, which yeah, of course. But the contents of UXM 17 don't preclude that.

[Fokken]

Thank you for your insight on this Mackandal! Really, thank you.

[Mackandal]

Well, obviously I don't speak for or even agree with all or most of the trans community. It's just, like, my opinion man.
Tbf, I'm not a woman so I don't feel as directly threatened by trans panic as they do which may colour my feelings. But I think most of the loudest voices against it aren't women either, so

[legion_quest]

I am trans.

I don't understand what the point of X-Men even is if writers aren't allowed to spotlight and shame real oppression.

A cis character is transphobically victimised- bad because they're not vulnerable in real life. A trans character is transphobically victimised- very bad because it's triggering. So then the only option left is to pretend there is no conflict and that everyone is equal. So then why have mutants at all?

The character in question isn't trans. So when Rosenberg writes her being murdered for being a "trap", no trans woman has to suffer. This scene won't contribute to the perception of trans women. Trans women don't have to literally see themselves die. That's why I was relatively unaffected reading it, and only became triggered reading the discourse hammering home that this scene depicts us suffering, and we are always suffering. Trans women aren't the victims on page. But the absurdity of the Panic reasoning, the evil of her murderers, the injustice, that is conveyed. I would have thought this scene was the best of both worlds.

I don't know what these people want, beyond actual and positive trans rep, which yeah, of course. But the contents of UXM 17 don't preclude that.

Thank you for this.

This was the point I very much wanted to make, but didn't feel overly comfortable doing so because I couldn't speak from a trans POV.

[Wiccan615]

Edit: should have probably read the last page in a bit more detail lol

[Wiccan]

This is pretty much what started the conversation around here...