LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Kieran_Frost]

Honnestly, it was for me a (good) surprise that some readers didn't get on arms when Pak created General Howlett.

Agreed, but being an alternate reality was probably a good buffer. Few fans seem to get too worked up over alternate reality occurrences, or what ifs?

While her specific character might not be mainstream knowledge, the name Batwoman is immediatly recognizable and sounds kinda like a big deal. Marvel needs something like that, a queer character tied to a marquee name to have some impact. The best thing Northstar can hope for is a My Little Pony reference.

Fair point. I hope Northstar gets to lead soon, I am confident in Kyle&Yost will make him awesome.

Maybe Miss America could eventually become the new "it" character like Ms. Marvel has, given the right creative team?

I would really love to see MAC get a solo series; BUT I'd love it even more if she did a "dual comic" (like Incredible Hercules or Cable&Deadpool) with Kate Bishop (or Arana). That would be awesome.

I also meant to mention Matt Fraction. Almost everything I have read of his Marvel work includes LGBT characters. THE ORDER had a lesbian member, as well as an all-girl villain team that had several lesbians. He brought Northstar back to the X-Men in his run there, and the issue of DARK AVENGERS he wrote was the only issue of the series to acknowledge Daken's bisexuality (although Bendis is good with LGBT content in general, he dropped the ball on Daken). His IRON MAN run had a gay couple as supporting characters. His HAWKEYE series has a gay couple, as well as a lesbian, as supporting characters. His FF run outed Tong as transgender.

You know what... I'm both shocked and yet unsurprised I forgot Fraction. Shocked, because you are right, he's so incredibly pro-LGBT; but "unsurprised" because he treats it as such a normal, common thing, it doesn't stick out (which is a good thing). Kudos, Fraction is one of the best pro-LGBT character writers.

This will be the closest we'll get.

OMG! Where is this from? This is hilarious!!!

I'd like it if Marvel introduced a transgender superhero. Again, not a character whose gender has been changed magically, or had their mind implanted in a different body, or who shapeshifted into a more comfortable form, or any of those other comic book things. But someone who was born one gender, and, either with or without the gender reassignment surgery, now identifies as the other gender. And give the character powers that are completely and totally unrelated to their status as a trans person.

QUESTION: if you could, which established hero would you explore trans with?

I know I'd out Iceman, but for trans... the only character I can think of who'd be good would be Lascivious (and I'd do it in Thunderbolts).

[Greg]

This will be the closest we'll get.

Whoa, how is this the first time I'm seeing this???

[Dermie]

OMG! Where is this from? This is hilarious!!!

It is from Frank Tieri's WOLVERINE & HERCULES miniseries from a couple of years ago. A fun read.

[Tiamatty]

QUESTION: if you could, which established hero would you explore trans with?

I know I'd out Iceman, but for trans... the only character I can think of who'd be good would be Lascivious (and I'd do it in Thunderbolts).

I'm not sure I'd do it with any established character. I mean, with a character realizing they're gay or bisexual, it doesn't take that much to justify it. Have a person of the same sex kiss them, and they say, "Oh, huh, I actually really, really liked that. That felt right."

But for trans, it's a lot tougher. There should ideally be a lot of hints that the character is uncomfortable with their own body. And I can't really think of a character that really applies to.

I suppose if I had to use an existing character for it, I might go with Moondragon. But I'd rather just create a new character to explore the issue with.

[Spider-Chan]

QUESTION: if you could, which established hero would you explore trans with?

I know I'd out Iceman, but for trans... the only character I can think of who'd be good would be Lascivious (and I'd do it in Thunderbolts).

I once read the "theory" that Emma Frost is a trans woman. The guy who made the "theory" was just joking, but it made sense in so many levels, its pretty much canon in my head. I can't recall very good but it stated that her "brother", Christian Frost, was in fact Emma and young Emma is a product of Emma's own imagination, a vision of how she could be and how beautiful she could look.

In the Emma Frost series is revealed that "Christian" is gay and his father, being a bigot, sends him to a mental institution, where he's never heard of again. In Generation X #24 is stated that Emma was in a mental institution from which she escaped and she burned it to the ground and she "never looked back".
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...rosts-origins/
There are other details here and there, and obviously some stuff was written in other times etc... but if a writer decides to make Emma a trans woman, it would make sense. There would be no contradictions and it would explain so many aspects of her life, from her pessimistic views about humanity in general but protector of those who have suffered...

... to her fabulousness.

[Ant-manic]

I once read the "theory" that Emma Frost is a trans*woman. The guy who made the "theory" was just joking, but it made sense in so many levels, its pretty much canon in my head. I can't recall very good but it stated that her "brother", Christian Frost, was in fact Emma and young Emma is a product of Emma's own imagination, a vision of how she could be and how beautiful she could look.

the Cyclops fans would love that.

[Ant-manic]

QUESTION: if you could, which established hero would you explore trans with?

does it have to be a hero? there are at least 3 villains that i could namedrop. how about Snowbird? I do miss Christian Frost (although we didn't see much of him). he had personality.

[MegaJay]

I would rather have a new character for a transgender superhero. I think we're getting closer to it, it's the last hurdle.

[Kieran_Frost]

I once read the "theory" that Emma Frost is a trans*woman. The guy who made the "theory" was just joking, but it made sense in so many levels, its pretty much canon in my head. I can't recall very good but it stated that her "brother", Christian Frost, was in fact Emma and young Emma is a product of Emma's own imagination, a vision of how she could be and how beautiful she could look.

In the Emma Frost series is revealed that "Christian" is gay and his father, being a bigot, sends him to a mental institution, where he's never heard of again. In Generation X #24 is stated that Emma was in a mental institution from which she escaped and she burned it to the ground and she "never looked back".
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...rosts-origins/
There are other details here and there, and obviously some stuff was written in other times etc... but if a writer decides to make Emma a trans*woman, it would make sense. There would be no contradictions and it would explain so many aspects of her life, from her pessimistic views about humanity in general but protector of those who have suffered...

WOW! I'm a massive Emma fan (like my third favourite character EVER!!!)... and I 100% could believe this! It actually makes total sense (and makes her series all kinds of messed up -- if it was all in her head). I think this theory is epic! And I support it. Is there any history this directly contradicts? I mean if we only know her past from "her stories" (in her head), is there anyone who met young Emma, that this contradicts?

Oh... the cos-play options:

It is from Frank Tieri's WOLVERINE & HERCULES miniseries from a couple of years ago. A fun read.

Ha! I hope Claremont fully outs Logan in Nightcrawler.

I'm not sure I'd do it with any established character. I mean, with a character realizing they're gay or bisexual, it doesn't take that much to justify it. Have a person of the same sex kiss them, and they say, "Oh, huh, I actually really, really liked that. That felt right."
But for trans, it's a lot tougher. There should ideally be a lot of hints that the character is uncomfortable with their own body. And I can't really think of a character that really applies to.

While I understand your logic, you and I both know if it is a new hero, there's a 99% chance once the writer leaves, off to limbo the trans character would go. Where as if it's an established hero, there is a much high chance the trans character will stay around.

As for who... I'm sure we can find heroes and villains who have body issues, that can be adapted. Hell, you could argue Beast keeps changing his form, and only now realises it's not the human/mutant aspect he wants to change?

does it have to be a hero? there are at least 3 villains that i could namedrop. how about Snowbird?

Oh, it can be anyone, I just said hero because I'm bad with phraseology. My suggestion was a villain (Lascivious). Snowbird from the God Squad?

[SocializingMogo]

I once read the "theory" that Emma Frost is a trans*woman. The guy who made the "theory" was just joking, but it made sense in so many levels, its pretty much canon in my head. I can't recall very good but it stated that her "brother", Christian Frost, was in fact Emma and young Emma is a product of Emma's own imagination, a vision of how she could be and how beautiful she could look.

In the Emma Frost series is revealed that "Christian" is gay and his father, being a bigot, sends him to a mental institution, where he's never heard of again. In Generation X #24 is stated that Emma was in a mental institution from which she escaped and she burned it to the ground and she "never looked back".
http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...rosts-origins/
There are other details here and there, and obviously some stuff was written in other times etc... but if a writer decides to make Emma a trans*woman, it would make sense. There would be no contradictions and it would explain so many aspects of her life, from her pessimistic views about humanity in general but protector of those who have suffered...

... to her fabulousness.

All this makes actually sense...

[NexusTenebrare]

WOW! I'm a massive Emma fan (like my third favourite character EVER!!!)... and I 100% could believe this! It actually makes total sense (and makes her series all kinds of messed up -- if it was all in her head). I think this theory is epic! And I support it. Is there any history this directly contradicts? I mean if we only know her past from "her stories" (in her head), is there anyone who met young Emma, that this contradicts?

Oh... the cos-play options:

I quite like this idea too, but I don't see the X-writers ever doing this.
A shame really, because it would make for a brilliant story.

As for contradictions. PAD's X-factor.
Kinda dificult to produce offspring for a man and a transexual woman.
Then again, it was the future and the MU is a universe of gods and magic.

Ha! I hope Claremont fully outs Logan in Nightcrawler.

I hope not. I know there are those that see Logan and Gambit as being bi, but I don't see it at all. These guys have never been anything but skirt chasers.
I can see them being accepting of LGBT people, but actually numbering among them is totally OOC for them in my opinion.
But we've been through the so called evidence before. It didn't convince me at any other point, so let's not get into that discussion again.

On the other hand, General Howlett should still be in the 616. I really hope some writer makes use of him soon.
Dare I even say, have Marvel try to make him replace regular 616 Wolverine permanently (or at least untill the next Wolverine/X-Men movie).

Oh, it can be anyone, I just said hero because I'm bad with phraseology. My suggestion was a villain (Lascivious). Snowbird from the God Squad?

Presumably Snowbird from Alpha Flight.
She was in AF for a long time. The God Squad was from a single short run of Hercules.
Put allegiance where allegiance is due.

[BushidoBlade2]

I'm not sure I'd do it with any established character. I mean, with a character realizing they're gay or bisexual, it doesn't take that much to justify it. Have a person of the same sex kiss them, and they say, "Oh, huh, I actually really, really liked that. That felt right."

But for trans, it's a lot tougher. There should ideally be a lot of hints that the character is uncomfortable with their own body. And I can't really think of a character that really applies to.

I suppose if I had to use an existing character for it, I might go with Moondragon. But I'd rather just create a new character to explore the issue with.

I don't think it's tougher considering that not all trans men and women come out as children. We see it happening often now and days but there are many that wait until they're an adult to come out as transgendered and then start the transition from M to F or F to M. If they were to use an existing character, all that character would have to say is "I always felt uncomfortable in my own body, I just didn't tell anyone."

[Kieran_Frost]

Yet more homoerotic goodness in the Loki cover

I quite like this idea too, but I don't see the X-writers ever doing this.
A shame really, because it would make for a brilliant story.

While I agree that it's highly, HIGHLY unlikely for the X-writers to do it... it IS the most supportive/progessive area of Marvel in terms of LGBT (and has been good at having diverse casts for decades). If any area did reveal a character as trans, it would be the X-verse.

Also, how wonderful to have a trans character that is both open with her sexuality, proud of it, and still hot and one of the main X-women? I'd 100% support this (BIG Emma fan!)

As for contradictions. PAD's X-factor.
Kinda difficult to produce offspring for a man and a transexual woman.
Then again, it was the future and the MU is a universe of gods and magic.

Hmmm.... will have to think of this...

On the other hand, General Howlett should still be in the 616. I really hope some writer makes use of him soon.
Dare I even say, have Marvel try to make him replace regular 616 Wolverine permanently (or at least untill the next Wolverine/X-Men movie).

I'd LOVE Gen. Howlett to take over Wolverine's comic (Daken style); and give us a second LGBT solo star! He's still in 616, as far as I know???

I don't think it's tougher considering that not all trans men and women come out as children. We see it happening often now and days but there are many that wait until they're an adult to come out as transgendered and then start the transition from M to F or F to M. If they were to use an existing character, all that character would have to say is "I always felt uncomfortable in my own body, I just didn't tell anyone."

Agreed.

[Kieran_Frost]

Since it's Al Ewing (Loki: Agent of Asgard) writing Avengers 34.1... what is the chance that he will out Hyperion? (if he is indeed Hickman's suppossed "LGBT" Avenger) Ewing seems far more able to get character AND plot in his stories, very evenly.

[NexusTenebrare]

While I agree that it's highly, HIGHLY unlikely for the X-writers to do it... it IS the most supportive/progessive area of Marvel in terms of LGBT (and has been good at having diverse casts for decades). If any area did reveal a character as trans, it would be the X-verse.

Also, how wonderful to have a trans character that is both open with her sexuality, proud of it, and still hot and one of the main X-women? I'd 100% support this (BIG Emma fan!)

I will say this. If they were to do it, I want it to be revealed that Scott knew the entire time (not that he found out, but that Emma told him) and that he didn't care.
I feel that would add nicely to Scott's character and I personally don't want to see too much outrage at a transexual reveal.