LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[NewMutant]

Shatterstar was supposably in that Deadpool OHC by Liefield. I don't remember it ever coming out, but it was suppose to be by the movie. I know he was looking more like his original design and was Rictor-less. Liefield said he wasn't addressing his sexuality one way or another. (After saying he wanted to revert him to hetero when PAD got him and Rictor officially together).

[NexusTenebrare]

Well, they don't consider themselves LGBT because they're not lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans. They are something else. Asexuality is not covered by that list, for example. But they still have a non-standard sexual orientation. They're still marginalized as a result of it. But LGBT is an acronym that excludes them, so why would they identify as that? And a lot of people who would fall under the acronym identify as queer, as well - Kate Leth springs to mind, she's bisexual but identifies as queer - so it's not like it's just people who don't fit the acronym.

I try to remember to use LGBT in this thread, rather than queer (except for people who do identify as queer). I'm just saying why some people prefer queer as an umbrella. And I think your analogy is insulting to those people.

I never said they should call themselves LGBT. In fact, I have problems with the ever-expanding of the LGBT acronym.
I'm saying that if they do want a name for themselves, maybe not chose one that is an insult to the people you want to distance yourself from.

And you might think my analogy is insulting, but it is apt. That is exactly what happened.
And if some LGBT people want to call themselves that word? Fine. They can call themselves whatever they want. But don't go telling me that the word used to insult me is now my new designation. That is not okay.

[Anduinel]

Then they should use a word that hasn't historically been used as a slur against LGBT people.

I never agreed with that sentiment. We don't have a lot of descriptors that haven't been hijacked and used as slurs and insults. If you break the LGBT acronym down, there's only one word in there I hadn't heard used as the basis of a taunt or an insult by the time I was out of grade school. (I had to wait until I was older and out in the "community" to hear bisexual used as a pejorative.) Even the most baseline, vanilla descriptor we've got for same-sex attraction has had the stigma of being an official psychiatric disorder. Beyond that, the history of "queer" is more complicated than it just being a slur. It was used as a self-identifier among gays and lesbians as far back at the 1920's. It has a history that is empowering for some -- the chant isn't "We're here, we're LGBT, get used to it", after all. Some folks value the act of reclaiming. For some people, it was the first time they saw their orientation granted legitimacy and cultural worth, re: queer studies, queer history, queer literature, etc.

The word does have baggage and no one should have to take it as part of their identity if they're not comfortable with it. But it also has positive connotations for a lot of folks that shouldn't just be dismissed.

Well, they don't consider themselves LGBT because they're not lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans. They are something else. Asexuality is not covered by that list, for example. But they still have a non-standard sexual orientation. They're still marginalized as a result of it. But LGBT is an acronym that excludes them, so why would they identify as that? And a lot of people who would fall under the acronym identify as queer, as well - Kate Leth springs to mind, she's bisexual but identifies as queer - so it's not like it's just people who don't fit the acronym.

Some also choose not to for the same reason some folks who believe in gender equality don't identify as feminists: they feel the larger "community" gives lip service to being inclusive while the reality is that it mostly represents the interests of those within the group who are already the most privileged and accepted, and that the acronym suggests a solidarity that doesn't actually exist. It's not a coincidence that we see a lot more folks identifying as queer once we're past the "LG" part of LGBT, and it's one of the reasons I generally prefer it.

That all said, I do agree that LGBT is a safer term to use when in mixed company, and it would be nice if certain folks would get off legion_quest's tip about his comfort level.

[Andru]

It took a considerable amount of time and effort but I finally completed my homage to Mahmud Asrar's work using Billy Kaplan.

Hope folks find it fun to look at.

Gorgeous! Great job Fokken !!!

[Anduinel]

There's some speculation going on that The Ray will be the first gay character in the JLA. (Sorry, Diana, Word of God alone doesn't count.)

With Orlando on writing duties, I'm inclined to agree that odds are pretty good.

[legion_quest]

There's some speculation going on that The Ray will be the first gay character in the JLA. (Sorry, Diana, Word of God alone doesn't count.)

With Orlando on writing duties, I'm inclined to agree that odds are pretty good.

I was already down to read JLA with Orlando writing, but if they are going to let him put an actually open and out gay character on the team, excellent.

The Ray is a character I know almost nothing about, but I like his costume and with him set to potentially appear in the CW-verse, it's a good time to get some exposure out there in the books.

Come on Marvel, stop dragging your feet and gay it up!

[Kieran_Frost]

Okay first of all I think we need some LGBT goodness from 2016 to smooth the tides, my lovely wee sausages.

Rictor showed up in X-Tinction Agenda, and Star was in X-Men '92. I haven't read them, but I don't think either appearance was more than a cameo.

Ah, thank-you for this. I stand corrected.

You'd read Vision because it's a brilliant book and one of the best things Marvel's ever put out. And you'd read Squirrel Girl because it's hilarious and wonderful.

I love your passion for them, Tiamatty; I'm so happy you have these comics you love (I'm sadly lacking a lot of passion right now for Marvel comics, nothing is making me "squeal") but you have to understand why a comic that you told me is not kind to a character I adore isn't ever going to be top of my pull list.

With LGBT being an umbrella, I think one thing that's worth noting is how it can actually subtly influence perception. It wouldn't even be something we think about. But the words we use do shape how we view things, so when we use LGBT as a catch-all for anyone who's non-cis or non-het, it does place a subtle hierarchy, where those four are the ones who "matter," while anyone else isn't really considered. It makes it a little harder for, as an example, a bigender person to be heard. There's a subtle pressure against them speaking out, and people are subtly less inclined to listen. I was friends with an asexual girl in college, and she actually complained that she disliked the Gay-Lesbian Alliance because she felt excluded. I doubt she's alone in that feeling.

LGBT is an umbrella term the same way gay pride and gay rights don't ONLY mean events or legislation for men solely interested in men. AND best of all it isn't fundamentally offensive to some the way the Q word is, so I always caution anyone who uses it. They must be aware IF they intend to spend their life using it, they must accept it is going to conflict with others (in a way safer, more neutral umbrella terms like LGBT+ will not). I do agree adding a "+" at the end is a good idea, and I will try and remember to do that (I'm just very forgetful).

Beautiful work, Fokken!

Gorgeous! Great job Fokken !!!

Agreed; I'm both simultaneously proud and insanely jealous of his talent. Fokken have you always been an artist?

[Kieran_Frost]

Is there an LGBT panel at NYCC this year? A Marvel specific one is too much to hope for, but an overall panel might happen?

[ZNOP]

Well, they don't consider themselves LGBT because they're not lesbian, gay, bisexual or trans. They are something else. Asexuality is not covered by that list, for example. But they still have a non-standard sexual orientation. They're still marginalized as a result of it. But LGBT is an acronym that excludes them, so why would they identify as that? And a lot of people who would fall under the acronym identify as queer, as well - Kate Leth springs to mind, she's bisexual but identifies as queer - so it's not like it's just people who don't fit the acronym.

Can you explain to us in what way (how?) "Asexuals" are marginalized in main stream society?

[Kieran_Frost]

Can you explain to us in what way (how?) "Asexuals" are marginalized in main stream society?

No, can we move this (and any NON-Marvel LGBT+ discussions) to the LGBTQIA Community thread (http://community.comicbookresources....munity/page146) on CBR. It's tangent-ed (sp?) this thread long enough. Cheers, me dears.

[legion_quest]

No, can we move this (and any NON-Marvel LGBT discussions) to the LGBT Community thread (http://community.comicbookresources....munity/page146) on CBR. It's tangent-ed (sp?) this thread long enough. Cheers, me dears.

Sorry, that was my fault. It usually is.

[Tiamatty]

I love your passion for them, Tiamatty; I'm so happy you have these comics you love (I'm sadly lacking a lot of passion right now for Marvel comics, nothing is making me "squeal") but you have to understand why a comic that you told me is not kind to a character I adore isn't ever going to be top of my pull list.

Well, the book is a tragedy. Anyone who gets a line in it ends up having something bad happen to them. That is barely an exaggeration. It's not a book that believes in happy endings.

Can you explain to us in what way (how?) "Asexuals" are marginalized in main stream society?

You could just look it up yourself.

[Fokken]

You could just look it up yourself.

YES please.

[Silvermoth]

Is there an LGBT panel at NYCC this year? A Marvel specific one is too much to hope for, but an overall panel might happen?

I hope so!

Watching Luke Cage has made me think about what a queer version of the show would look like. You know, instead of hip hop you would have scissor sisters and Kyle minogue etc? Intriguing thought. We'll get there one day

[Star_Jammer]

I hope so!

Watching Luke Cage has made me think about what a queer version of the show would look like. You know, instead of hip hop you would have scissor sisters and Kyle minogue etc? Intriguing thought. We'll get there one day

Oy vey... LOL