LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Micabe]

The aro/ace identities are still different from the standard idea of heterosexuality. And while they might have faced less violence and discrimination, there's still some prejudice and misinformation around them. AKA, they fit in. They fit the brand. They're one of us.

I accept that... But, Asexual as a sexuality (or lack thereof) simply doesn't rise to the level of being a definitive classification on par with Homo and or Hetero as I understand them.

***



See: Guardians of the Galaxy #9 (2021) for the full story

[PyroTwilight]

This all makes me question why asexuals are counted among the LGBT community at all as opposed to being in a class among themselves. Last I checked asexuals are not personally attacked on a regular, persecuted, and or discriminated against simply because they're not all that interested in having sexual relationships.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discri...asexual_people

Uh arguably not as much but it is a thing

[PyroTwilight]

More on the Gwenpool end where Whitley basically gets quoted from an interview that since he couldn't get to write Nadia / Wasp explicitly as AroAce they looked for another character they could do it with and chose Gwenpool

https://twitter.com/jakeslockleys/st...694331392?s=20

Yeesh that reads pretty badly to me even if they tried to put a positive spin on it.

[Drops Of Venus]

This all makes me question why asexuals are counted among the LGBT community at all as opposed to being in a class among themselves. Last I checked asexuals are not personally attacked on a regular, persecuted, and or discriminated against simply because they're not all that interested in having sexual relationships.

Asexual
The adjective describes a person who does not experience sexual attraction. Sometimes shortened to “ace,” it is an umbrella term that can also include people who are demisexual, meaning they do experience some sexual attraction; graysexual, meaning those who may not fit the strictest definition of the word asexual; and aromantic, meaning they experience little to no romantic attraction and/or has little to no desire to form romantic relationships.

Well, some things to consider:

1. The idea of queerness has, over the years, evolved to encompass any identities that are outside of the ''norm'' of sexual orientation (heterosexuality) and gender identity (cisgenderness). That's why not only ace/aro people, but also intersex, genderfluid, non-binary, etc, people are often integrated into the LGBTQ+ acronym.

2. Discrimination against ace/aro people might not be as common, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Ace/aro people have to hear that their sexuality ''is just a phase'', or be pressured into changing by society because they don't fit the norm. I have heard of ace people who've been sent to conversion therapy, for example. That is an experience that is much closer to the reality of queer people than non-queer people.

3. Intersectionality is a thing; someone being ace doesn't mean they can't fit into other identities within the LGBTQ community. An asexual person could identify as homo/biromantic, for example.

4. Even if you disagree with the above points and still think they should be their own thing, that is not a practical thing to do. I mean, who's gonna create an Asexual/Aromantic Pride Month? There would be like a dozen people marching on the streets for something like that. In Marvel's case, there is like two ace characters I can think of, and one of them wasn't even that explicit. They're not gonna make a special Marvel's Voices edition just for that. There is so little incentive behind ace/aro representation as it is, so it's easier to integrate them into a bigger community with a bigger reach.

More on the Gwenpool end where Whitley basically gets quoted from an interview that since he couldn't get to write Nadia / Wasp explicitly as AroAce they looked for another character they could do it with and chose Gwenpool

https://twitter.com/jakeslockleys/st...694331392?s=20

Yeesh that reads pretty badly to me even if they tried to put a positive spin on it.

Not surprised. Honestly, that's the reason why I can't really get into Nadia as a character. It feels like her entire existence is just one big MCU advertisement. Anyway, I'm glad Whitley got to write the ace/aro story he wanted to eventually.

[Frontier]

More on the Gwenpool end where Whitley basically gets quoted from an interview that since he couldn't get to write Nadia / Wasp explicitly as AroAce they looked for another character they could do it with and chose Gwenpool

https://twitter.com/jakeslockleys/st...694331392?s=20

Yeesh that reads pretty badly to me even if they tried to put a positive spin on it.

So basically this is all editorial/corporate synergy's fault (well, that and Whitley having just a bit of an agenda).

Although I think Nadia was explicitly ace in her own novel so I guess they weren't that strict about it.

Not surprised. Honestly, that's the reason why I can't really get into Nadia as a character. It feels like her entire existence is just one big MCU advertisement. Anyway, I'm glad Whitley got to write the ace/aro story he wanted to eventually.

Honestly she's so distinct from Hope and pretty much her own thing that I stopped seeing it as an issue...the only time I really have a problem is now it feels like we can't get any solo Janet content because Nadia has to be involved somehow.

[PyroTwilight]

Not surprised. Honestly, that's the reason why I can't really get into Nadia as a character. It feels like her entire existence is just one big MCU advertisement. Anyway, I'm glad Whitley got to write the ace/aro story he wanted to eventually.

Ironic given they’re just two entirely different characters who are just mutually based on a third character but yeah.

Wish I could be glad about it. Gonna have headaches every time Gwenpool pops up now.

[PyroTwilight]

So basically this is all editorial/corporate synergy's fault (well, that and Whitley having just a bit of an agenda).

Although I think Nadia was explicitly ace in her own novel so I guess they weren't that strict about it.

Yeah I’ve heard about that but yeah it’s a separate non canon book I believe so yeah easy to do whatever in.

And I think this pretty much confirms a very clear big agenda haha, though not necessarily a bad one, just a woefully misplaced one

[Dermie]

So basically this is all editorial/corporate synergy's fault (well, that and Whitley having just a bit of an agenda).

Although I think Nadia was explicitly ace in her own novel so I guess they weren't that strict about it.

I really don't understand why Nadia being inspired by Hope should have prevented Nadia getting confirmed as ace anyway. There are very, very few cases of characters in the MCU and their 616 counterparts actually being a direct match -- there are always some differences and variances. We've had characters who have had their gender and/or racial background be different in the comics vs the movies, so Nadia being ace really should not have been a big deal.

It looks like Nadia is in Gwen's MARVEL'S VOICES: PRIDE story though, so hopefully they'll finally make it official on-panel and finally correct that lapse in judgement and logic.

[Drops Of Venus]

I really don't understand why Nadia being inspired by Hope should have prevented Nadia getting confirmed as ace anyway. There are very, very few cases of characters in the MCU and their 616 counterparts actually being a direct match -- there are always some differences and variances. We've had characters who have had their gender and/or racial background be different in the comics vs the movies, so Nadia being ace really should not have been a big deal.

It looks like Nadia is in Gwen's MARVEL'S VOICES: PRIDE story though, so hopefully they'll finally make it official on-panel and finally correct that lapse in judgement and logic.

If I had to guess... I think Nadia being inspired by the MCU rather than the other way around sets different expectations for the character. It would be like outing Phil Coulson as gay. They could do it, but I think they are more hesitant to do it when the character owes their existence to that original media which might not follow the same path.

[Will Evans]

If I had to guess... I think Nadia being inspired by the MCU rather than the other way around sets different expectations for the character. It would be like outing Phil Coulson as gay. They could do it, but I think they are more hesitant to do it when the character owes their existence to that original media which might not follow the same path.

yeah but look at Quake. After Agents of Shield they retcon her to be half Asian and her mother an Inhuman rather than a prostitute. Even though Daisy first came from comics.

[Rift]

Wasn't this during the era of synergy? Like there's still some attempts at synergy now, but I remember the comics REALLY changing itself to match the MCU during that time period.

[Drops Of Venus]

yeah but look at Quake. After Agents of Shield they retcon her to be half Asian and her mother an Inhuman rather than a prostitute. Even though Daisy first came from comics.

I don't think that disproves what I said. Quake got this treatment because she was a minor character that not a lot of people really knew until AOS, so they took advantage of that particular exposure to advertise her in other media. Nadia is a character who literally didn't exist until the MCU prompted them to create her, so editorial might see her in a specific way. I mean, in Jeremy Whitley's own words, there were nerves in telling that story with a character ''who owed so much to a movie franchise''. Ultimately, the MCU impacted both characters, but for different reasons.

[The Cool Thatguy]

If I had to guess... I think Nadia being inspired by the MCU rather than the other way around sets different expectations for the character. It would be like outing Phil Coulson as gay. They could do it, but I think they are more hesitant to do it when the character owes their existence to that original media which might not follow the same path.

Well, Coulson is a devil worshipper who hates the Avengers now, so...

[Drops Of Venus]

Well, Coulson is a devil worshipper who hates the Avengers now, so...

That is different, 'cause it's only a plot device that can easily be undone and returned to the status quo by the next volume. Outing someone with a certain sexuality is not really the kind of stuff you can change easily once it's done.

[Dermie]

If I had to guess... I think Nadia being inspired by the MCU rather than the other way around sets different expectations for the character. It would be like outing Phil Coulson as gay. They could do it, but I think they are more hesitant to do it when the character owes their existence to that original media which might not follow the same path.

That may well be the honest reason for it....but it doesn't change the fact that it is nonsense. The comics already made several other significant changes to Nadia from the MCU inspiration of Hope. Nadia is a teenager, while Hope is a full grown adult. Nadia is a former Russian Red Room agent--which is not related to any part of Hope's backstory. Nadia has never been romantically or sexually involved with Scott Lang or any other person to bear the Ant-Man mantle. Nadia has been diagnosed as bipolar; Hope has never been established to have mental health problems.

So, clearly there is a certain inconsistency in terms of how that restriction is applied. Unfortunately the fact that this particular change would have involved sexuality--and was back in the time before the MCU had started presenting openly LGBT+ characters--is likely a factor in why this particular change from Hope got stopped, while giving her bipolar disorder was approved.