ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]
BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]
CULLEN BLOODSTONE
DAKEN AKIHIRO
HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]
KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]
KAROLINA DEAN
LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief
MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]
MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]
NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]
PRODIGY [David Alleyne]
RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]
SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]
WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge
Edgame spoilers:
spoilers:end of spoilers
Valkyrie is now Queen of Asgard, awesome. Now if only they'd confirm her bisexuality onscreen.
People have been speculating about the Young Avengers joining the MCU in the near future, but I knew it wasn't gonna' happen anytime soon. Despite what some people at Marvel want us to believe it's still gonna' be a while before we see actual gay superheroes in their movies, same goes with Star Wars.
Last edited by MasterOfMagnetism; 04-26-2019 at 08:55 PM.
Oh, I get the frustration about artists not getting the looks of the characters right. It's something I wish editorial was more organized about, because it happens way more often than it should. But it's not a dealbreaker for me if the book turns out to be really good.
Anyway, I've been thinking and... maybe the old looks might not even be a mistake? Like, judging by the premise (the fear of becoming obsolete and being surpassed by a new generation), maybe Billy and Teddy wearing their old outfits as a way to relive their old days could be an actual plot point?
I get your frustration, but if it is rooted in not knowing much and not being given too much information about it, I think it's fair to point out that I don't think it's because Marvel doesn't care, but rather because Feige has said a couple of times now that they're not ready to officially announce anything about phase 4 until phase 3 ends. So we will have to wait until Spider-Man: Far From Home comes out to have an actual clue about what's going on with those future projects. Let's hope for the best...
Yeah, lead character could mean a lot of things, specially in an ensemble movie. Think of the Thor franchise: Thor was obviously the lead character and at least 2/3 of the movies focused on his heterosexual romance with the female lead. However, Loki was a big part of that same franchise, and is now even getting his own TV spin-off. One could argue Loki was one of the leading characters of the Thor franchise, even if he wasn't necessarily ''the face'' of it. If they can give this ''James'' character the same level of relevance Loki got? That's more than enough for me.
That's an interesting point you bring up. I don't see as much discussion about the whole fem/masc dynamics between queer female characters in media, but then again I don't know if it's because that doesn't actually happen as much or if it's because I'm just not exposed to the fandom of female queer couples as much.
Not just her fans, but a lot of people outside of her fandom who don't even want to give the character a chance anymore. It's like she can't even be brought up anywhere without people coming out of the woodwork just to point out how much of a ''failure'' she is because of her solo. It's really sad, because the character has a lot of potential. I hope Marvel can bring back that excitement everyone seemed to have for the character back when she was with the Young Avengers.
It's mostly men having the conversation, so it makes sense we'd all (gay or straight) know what it's like growing up with the pressures to conform to 'manly' stereotypes, and all the jerky behavior that can result (from as deadly serious as violent gay-bashing to as seemingly trivial, but equally misogynistic, as making whip-cracking sounds when a male friend takes a call from his girlfriend or wife and seems 'too deferential' and not 'appropriately' dismissive of her).
I'm sure women have their own horror stories about 'copping' each other's behavior to be 'appropriately feminine,' but it's not something many us dudes have personally experienced (although I'm sure plenty of us know a 'tomboy' who has been called a slut for hanging out with the boys whom she shares interests with or whatever).
Fortunately, while the recent 'West Coast Avengers' team wasn't for everyone, America has been treated pretty well there. It's a left-handed compliment to be sure, but anyone is bound to feel like a breathe of fresh air when on a team with controversial characters like Quentin Quire and Gwenpool.Not just her fans, but a lot of people outside of her fandom who don't even want to give the character a chance anymore. It's like she can't even be brought up anywhere without people coming out of the woodwork just to point out how much of a ''failure'' she is because of her solo. It's really sad, because the character has a lot of potential. I hope Marvel can bring back that excitement everyone seemed to have for the character back when she was with the Young Avengers.
I mean sure, she had a bad solo, but at least she didn't start a drug-fueled telepathy-induced riot that got people killed and others sent to prison, and is now marketed as 'misunderstood woobie' who is the subject of a crush by the sister of the Cuckoo *who died* shutting down his riot (and even before having a reason to do so, regarded him with contempt).
Sooo, I just watched Endgame and I have to say, I'm pleased with the LGBTQ representation we got. Was it much? No. But the directors never promised it was going to be much. They never even confirmed the film was going to have a queer character; one of them just said it was going to happen sooner than we think. I appreciate the fact that they didn't try to make a big deal out of it or advertise it as something that wasn't going to be there. Not queerbaiting your audience is a good sart. It was a single short scene, but the fact that we had an EXPLICIT mention of someone feeling a same-sex attraction in the biggest movie Marvel Studios has ever produced meant a lot, IMO. It showed us that Marvel is ready. It showed us just how easy it is to make it happen. And the fact that spoilers:end of spoilers, but I don't think that's the point. I think the point was to really just take that first step and show us that we can expect a certain kind of diversity and representation going forward. I always imagined that's how their first queer character was going to be done anyway. It doesn't mean it's going to be like that forever.
it was a character played by one of the directors made that a very, very special scene, because they knew it was a scene people were going to pay attention to and talk about. And yeah, it's likely we're never gonna see that character again
And oh, I just loved how spoilers:end of spoilers
Steve seemed very ok with the guy talking about his date with another man. As the Young Avengers fanboy that I am, it kind of reminded me of that glorious moment in the comics where he says he doesn't have any problem with Billy and Teddy's relationship, which was, IIRC, probably the first time we had Steve Rogers ever explicitly supporting LGBTQ people in the comics.
Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 04-27-2019 at 10:58 PM.
No, in the comics Steve had an openly gay friend Arnie Roth who he rescued from kidnappers who tried to brainwash him. Accepting Billy and Teddy's relationship was not the first time Steve was shown to be supportive of gay people. Ironically when they changed MCU Bucky from a teenager to an adult friend of Steve's who helped protect him from bullies they were taking Arnie's backstory and giving it to Bucky. So despite the "Stucky" ship being so controversial MCU Bucky is literally partially based on a gay character.
Last edited by MasterOfMagnetism; 04-27-2019 at 07:42 AM.
Steve is supposed to represent the BEST that America has to offer, but sadly doesn't always live up to. So him not having a problem with LGBT fits that as well. I mean during WWII he had no problems having a Black man, and Japanese-American, and a woman as part of his "inner circle." Nor did he have a problem with Fury being in charge (well not based on his race, he more disagreed with Fury's tactics).
I admire your optimism and positive spin on this. If this is a first step, then absolutely it's a good thing. I'm just concerned how long it's going to take to get to an actually relevant, openly LGBT character to be in the MCU. We've already had 20+ movies that could have included this baby first step, so we'll see how many more movies it takes to get an openly LGBT hero to join the ranks. Progress could easily be made with Valkyrie or Carol or maybe with this potential Eternals character, but I'm not going to get my hopes up until we see it. Really hoping we see something more by the end of Phase 4...
Huh. I actually thought about Steve having a gay friend in the past, but I believe it was one of those coded characters who weren't explicitly gay. I didn't know (or didn't remember) this Arnie guy at all. Thanks for letting me know, though.
Oh, I never thought for a second Steve would have a problem with minorities. It's just that a lot of people see his ''profile'' (white, straight, cis, old-fashioned, militar, christian male born in old times) and assume that he would be THAT kind of guy, you know? I actually saw an awful lot of people saying that Marvel turning Steve evil during Secret Empire was ''an attack against conversatives'' because they were trying to sully the image of a ''conservative'' character, LOL. But I never saw him like that, due to his backstory and the backstory of his creators. He always seemed like a pretty progressive character to me, like most Marvel characters, really.
I agree it took longer than it should have, but isn't that also true for LGBTQ rights in general? There are so many things we've only achieved in recent times, and there's still SO many we still need to. Marvel movies are just a reflection of our slow society, unfortunately. And I am pretty confident about the upcoming Eternals movie. I mean, Marvel openly casting a gay actor is something they never bothered to do before, so something tells me they are thinking differently this time around. We'll see.
It was pretty explicit. I don't have the pic saved on my computer but if you search for "Marvel Arnie Roth" on Google images you should easily find a comics panel where Steve literally says that Arnie's love for his boyfriend is just as valid as Steve's love for his girlfriend.
I have seen a lot of disdain for the endgame rep but I have to agree with this take.
While we absolutely deserve better, I wasn’t expecting anything at all in endgame. This is quite possibly the biggest film of all time, releasing in countries where being gay is still illegal and punishable. These things take time and even steps like this do matter. It’s also likely incredibly hard for directors/writers to get approval from execs to even do things like this. The MCU absolutely ought to do better but this was still both refreshing and unexpected to me.
"It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism."
-Mary Robinette Kowal
Yep. Given the Comics Code restrictions of the time, they couldn't actually come out and say the word "gay", but the writing was very clear that Arnie was gay and was in a relationship with a man--and that Steve knew about it and supported him. When Arnie was later targeted by Baron Zemo as one of Cap's closest friends, Zemo used some homophobic slurs when taunting Arnie as well.
Exactly. Given how many people saw potential romantic chemistry between MCU Steve and Bucky, its amusing to realize that a lot of the inspiration for MCU Bucky is from Steve's gay best friend.Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism
Last edited by Dermie; 04-28-2019 at 10:04 PM.
Of course, the big news in Marvel this week is the movie, but let's check in with the comics now....
The Week In Gay:
Age Of X-Man: X-Tremists #3 of 5 - more with Northstar, Iceman and Psylocke
Amazing Spider-Man #20 - "Hunted" arc continues, with Black Cat as one of many guest stars.
Mr & Mrs X #10 - no particular LGBT content in this one (aside from Remy's not-quite-official bisexuality), but we've got a bit of Gambit abs and a tiny glimpse of Gambit butt. And some developments that may be of interest to any Spiral fans in the audience.
Runaways #20
War Of The Realms: Uncanny X-Men #1 of 3 - Karma. And for the old school readers...an appearance by Nanny and Orphan Maker! How long has it been since those two last showed up anywhere?!
Anything I missed?