LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Holt]

It was some good stuff.




(Despite the last panels there, Arnie survives.)

[scourge]

I have seen a lot of disdain for the endgame rep but I have to agree with this take.

While we absolutely deserve better, I wasn’t expecting anything at all in endgame. This is quite possibly the biggest film of all time, releasing in countries where being gay is still illegal and punishable. These things take time and even steps like this do matter. It’s also likely incredibly hard for directors/writers to get approval from execs to even do things like this. The MCU absolutely ought to do better but this was still both refreshing and unexpected to me.

I don't think there's disdain for the rep itself so much as the Russo's "Look at us! We gave you super important gay representation! Isn't it huge and a big character and you should praise us and expect nothing more!" attitude. They barely threw a crumb and they expect to be treated like we got a whole buffet. The fact that there are fans acting like we should just settle for these little bits of nothing and be glad is fairly irritating as well.

And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. Is not a valid excuse anymore.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. It's not a valid excuse anymore.

That's the problem though, these movie studios aren't going to pass on more money. Yes they'll make billions regardless, but if including LGBT representation will hold them back from making even more than they're going to choose the most lucrative option.

[Wiccan615]

I don't think there's disdain for the rep itself so much as the Russo's "Look at us! We gave you super important gay representation! Isn't it huge and a big character and you should praise us and expect nothing more!" attitude. They barely threw a crumb and they expect to be treated like we got a whole buffet. The fact that there are fans acting like we should just settle for these little bits of nothing and be glad is fairly irritating as well.

And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. Is not a valid excuse anymore.

I have seen a lot of disdain for the rep itself, so much so that it’s hard to even talk about it in a positive light without being dogpiled on :/

I don’t know how much I actually agree with the whole Russo’s “you should praise us” narrative either....they never actually said anything like that? All I saw was “this was important to us and we wanted to do it authentically.” Which ofc, is still not beyond criticism but a lot of times I feel what they actually said gets misrepresented.

Again, like I said, we absolutely deserve better and people trying to mute our criticism and desire for better representation are never worth our time. Simultaneously, even little steps like this do matter, especially since it’s not that easy to get approval in the first place. It’s easy to say “those countries don’t matter” and I wish it were that easy, but greedy execs and corporations will often prioritize squeezing out every penny they can get. And again, in a context like that, these steps do matter, imo.

[NexusTenebrare]

That scene is going to do nothing to the homophobic markets like Russia. An editor can and undoubtedly will easily cut it out of the movie. That's why it was such an insignificant scene.
If it was truelly that important to the Russo's, they could've authentically introduced an actual important gay superhero by now. By far the easiest they could've included without any of the problems surrounding the YA would've been Living Lightning.

[Wiccan615]

While I agree that editors can and will cut things like that out, it’s moreso the “getting approval from higher ups that still prioritize homophobic mindsets” that is the tricky line to balance. The west doesn’t exactly embrace us either, there aren’t a lot of Hollywood blockbusters that feature us in any meaningful roles, after all.

It’s easy to denounce what the Russo’s could have or should have done, and I agree with all of that, but also how long did it take for the MCU to get a solo film with a female or PoC lead? There’s a lot of things that they ought to do better imo (and it’s always important to discuss and deconstruct that) but it ultimately comes down to those in power and what they prioritize. With the recent success of BP and CM, I wouldn’t be surprised if they become a bit more liberal with representation and hopefully the responses they’ve been getting encourage them to do better.

[Jumpyshark]

It is great that Brie Larson is making noise for LGBT content too, on top of the general push for more representation from her and others.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...representation

[Silvermoth]

I honestly think she’s wonderful. I adored the movie she made called “Unicorn store”

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Ok, so I finally got to see Avengers: Endgame for myself. The moment with the gay character is nice and I do appreciate one of the directors himself making sure it was in the movie, but after all these years it definitely wasn't the representation I've been waiting for from the MCU.

Anyway now we're all back to waiting for any more information to come out (pun not intended) about The Eternals and it's possible openly gay character.

[Rosebunse]

I do wish they could have done something more with what they had. I'm sure the movie wasn't an easy one to write and trying to incorporate LGBT elements were just another thing to consider, but it could have been done.

[Beetle]

I do wish they could have done something more with what they had. I'm sure the movie wasn't an easy one to write and trying to incorporate LGBT elements were just another thing to consider, but it could have been done.

spoilers:

They could have had Valkyrie with a girlfriend in New Asgard, they could have had Maria show up alongside Carol at Tony's funeral, they could have had Loki outright flirt with one of the guys arresting him, they could have had the kid who cyberbullied Korg over Fortnite say something homophobic and have Korg say something about how he doesn't understand why humans make such a big deal over it

end of spoilers

[MasterOfMagnetism]

I do wish they could have done something more with what they had. I'm sure the movie wasn't an easy one to write and trying to incorporate LGBT elements were just another thing to consider, but it could have been done.

I'm more disappointed that it was only in the final film of the series (yes, there will be more MCU movies but this was the grand finale for the story they've been telling so far) that they could finally work in an explicitly LGBT character and it was in such a minor role.

It's extremely telling that even with Taika Waititi fighting to try and include confirmation of Valkyrie's bisexuality in Thor: Ragnarok that it still didn't get included.

Whenever one of Marvel's higher-ups says something like; "the world is ready for a gay superhero" you should remember that the director of one of their films fought the studio to include an LGBT character and still lost.

spoilers:

They could have had Valkyrie with a girlfriend in New Asgard, they could have had Maria show up alongside Carol at Tony's funeral, they could have had Loki outright flirt with one of the guys arresting him, they could have had the kid who cyberbullied Korg over Fortnite say something homophobic and have Korg say something about how he doesn't understand why humans make such a big deal over it

end of spoilers

Those are all good points too.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

Here's an article talking about the frustrations that some of us are feeling with "Marvel's first gay character". Contains spoilers for Avengers: Endgame.

https://www.laineygossip.com/the-rus...haracter/55562

[Magmaster12]

spoilers:

They could have had Valkyrie with a girlfriend in New Asgard, they could have had Maria show up alongside Carol at Tony's funeral, they could have had Loki outright flirt with one of the guys arresting him, they could have had the kid who cyberbullied Korg over Fortnite say something homophobic and have Korg say something about how he doesn't understand why humans make such a big deal over it

end of spoilers

Those would all be incredibly forced

[Holt]