View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    26 3.49%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.61%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    20 2.68%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    43 5.77%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    36 4.83%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    40 5.37%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    43 5.77%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    64 8.59%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    39 5.23%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    109 14.63%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    60 8.05%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    21 2.82%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    37 4.97%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    46 6.17%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    149 20.00%
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  1. #14626
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    Did the souls of Thomas Shepherd and William Kaplan destroy Mephisto?

  2. #14627
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Did the souls of Thomas Shepherd and William Kaplan destroy Mephisto?
    Not sure what you mean by that question, but we've never had any story about Tommy Shepherd's and Billy Kaplan's souls and how they connect to Mephisto. Now, if you mean Thomas and William Maximoff, the original twins, then what we do know is that they were created from the shards of Mephisto's souls back when he was already destroyed, so their souls didn't harm him, but actually helped him get back to normal once they were retrieved.

  3. #14628
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Not sure what you mean by that question, but we've never had any story about Tommy Shepherd's and Billy Kaplan's souls and how they connect to Mephisto. Now, if you mean Thomas and William Maximoff, the original twins, then what we do know is that they were created from the shards of Mephisto's souls back when he was already destroyed, so their souls didn't harm him, but actually helped him get back to normal once they were retrieved.
    Assuming that Mephisto wasn't lying

    Frankly, this is something that annoys the hell out of me, with regards to Young Avengers. Writers seem utterly unwilling to give them any meaningful development, leaving unaddressed obvious questions (like how can Speed and Wiccan be Wanda's kids?) for how long now?

  4. #14629
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Not sure what you mean by that question, but we've never had any story about Tommy Shepherd's and Billy Kaplan's souls and how they connect to Mephisto. Now, if you mean Thomas and William Maximoff, the original twins, then what we do know is that they were created from the shards of Mephisto's souls back when he was already destroyed, so their souls didn't harm him, but actually helped him get back to normal once they were retrieved.
    Now, I'm really confused... How can Tommy Shepherd and Billy Kaplan be Thomas and William Maximoff reincarnated if the were actually bits of Mephisto?

  5. #14630
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Frankly, this is something that annoys the hell out of me, with regards to Young Avengers. Writers seem utterly unwilling to give them any meaningful development, leaving unaddressed obvious questions (like how can Speed and Wiccan be Wanda's kids?) for how long now?
    It hasn't been entirely unaddressed, as I recall. I'm pretty sure Wiccan has made an on-panel reference to the theories about how that happened. But no definitive answers have been figured out as of yet.

    The reason for that is likely that since it is such a convoluted mess of real souls, fake souls, reality warping to allow reincarnation before the kids were born in the first place, etc, that many of the writers would probably prefer to avoid pulling on those threads until/unless they have a storyline to make it worthwhile and a real solid answer. For the moment "its magic" is the basic answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Now, I'm really confused... How can Tommy Shepherd and Billy Kaplan be Thomas and William Maximoff reincarnated if the were actually bits of Mephisto?
    See above, re: "its magic".

    Wanda's twins were created using the missing bits of Mephisto's soul. That was an element to their creation--but it wasn't all that they were. So Wiccan and Speed are the reincarnation of the children that Wanda's magic created using Mephisto bits as an ingredient.

  6. #14631
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I wish Wiccan was just a gay guy that was good at magic and not related to the most problematic comic book family in the most comic booky way possible.

    I know Billy has fans but I wish he also wasn’t. Teddy as a Kree/Skrull hybrid prince raised on Earth has legs and could carry a book.

  7. #14632
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Assuming that Mephisto wasn't lying

    Frankly, this is something that annoys the hell out of me, with regards to Young Avengers. Writers seem utterly unwilling to give them any meaningful development, leaving unaddressed obvious questions (like how can Speed and Wiccan be Wanda's kids?) for how long now?
    The lack of a proper explanation frustrates me too, but I get the feeling things are like this because Heinberg never got to write all of the arcs he had planned for the Young Avengers. Then flashforward to The Children's Crusade, where he had to wrap up all of his story on an event that had too much going on already, so we just got Wanda going like ''yep, you're my sons'' and that was it. I think after that, most writers just accepted that as canon and didn't bother to add more to the story, since it was already a complicated one as it was. James Robinson was probably the only one who revisited their origin in the Scarlet Witch solo to try and make sense of the timeline of their origins, but other than that, yeah, it's been a big question mark. The fact that Tommy is an underrated character and hardly gets any stories about himself also makes it harder, since we'd be more likely to have an arc about that on a book that features both of them more prominently. I guess we'll just have to wait for the next YA relaunch, as usual.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shreene View Post
    Now, I'm really confused... How can Tommy Shepherd and Billy Kaplan be Thomas and William Maximoff reincarnated if the were actually bits of Mephisto?
    My personal headcanon is that Mephisto didn't retrieve his soul completely from the babies. He got enough back to restore his body, but there were parts of him that were still out there, and those parts were the ones who eventually found their way to Billy and Tommy as we know them. I think it's a simple, logical way to explain how their souls were able to reincarnate when, supposedly, Mephisto had absorbed all of them back.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I wish Wiccan was just a gay guy that was good at magic and not related to the most problematic comic book family in the most comic booky way possible.
    Well, the crux of making him just another generic magic guy is that he might've not stuck around for all those years if he was just that. Having an established, important connection to iconic stories and legacies of the Marvel Universe makes characters more attractive to the readers and writers, and therefore, more likely to be used in stories.

    I know Billy has fans but I wish he also wasn’t. Teddy as a Kree/Skrull hybrid prince raised on Earth has legs and could carry a book.
    I don't see how Billy having fans is stopping Teddy from carrying a book. Both are not mutually exclusive. And if anything, most Billy fans would probably want to support a Teddy book too, because usually they are also fans of him. And with Incoming, HOPEFULLY Marvel has realized Teddy's potential for his own stories.
    Last edited by Drops Of Venus; 09-18-2019 at 03:10 AM.

  8. #14633
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Well, the crux of making him just another generic magic guy is that he might've not stuck around for all those years if he was just that. Having an established, important connection to iconic stories and legacies of the Marvel Universe makes characters more attractive to the readers and writers, and therefore, more likely to be used in stories.
    I didn't say I didn't understand it the point of it. I said I wish he was simpler. I wish it wasn't necessary to be connected to all this Maximoff mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    I don't see how Billy having fans is stopping Teddy from carrying a book. Both are not mutually exclusive. And if anything, most Billy fans would probably want to support a Teddy book too, because usually they are also fans of him. And with Incoming, HOPEFULLY Marvel has realized Teddy's potential for his own stories.
    Because I want him single and dating. I get the sense Billy and Teddy are tied in fans' minds tighter than Kurt and Blaine, and that's exhausting. They're so young. Date other people.

  9. #14634
    Spectacular Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Because I want him single and dating. I get the sense Billy and Teddy are tied in fans' minds tighter than Kurt and Blaine, and that's exhausting. They're so young. Date other people.
    I'd REALLY rather not have that. Because I don't trust any of these writers to actually let gay characters date and have romance unless they're a pair.
    I mean when was the last time Striker or Anole had a date? Even one that lasted more than a couple pages only to never be acknowledged again...

    Really I'd rather have them go out on date nights together. Have Billy and Teddy go out to a club or have dinner and the like.

  10. #14635
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    Death's Head #3 spoilers

    spoilers:
    Teddy got some much needed characterization in this issue, a lot of it was still about Billy's own issues, but it was also about how mentally exhausting and taxing it can be to have a relationship with someone with mental health issues.

    Teddy puts in a lot of emotional labour into their relationship and making sure that they're both always okay. This was some good stuff
    end of spoilers

  11. #14636
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Death's Head #3 spoilers

    spoilers:
    Teddy got some much needed characterization in this issue, a lot of it was still about Billy's own issues, but it was also about how mentally exhausting and taxing it can be to have a relationship with someone with mental health issues.

    Teddy puts in a lot of emotional labour into their relationship and making sure that they're both always okay. This was some good stuff
    end of spoilers
    Agreed. I loved getting some much needed POV from Teddy in this issue, specially since the first two issues were mainly told from Billy's POV.

  12. #14637
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    So here's an interesting thing someone found out in an article from last year on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/scpphics/status/1173974901239308297

    People are guessing Kamala, but I don't think Marvel would have the balls to make her queer, so I'm guessing it is (or it was, not sure if that made the cut) supposed to be one of her friends. Maybe Nakia?

  13. #14638
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    The Week In Gay:

    Death's Head #3 of 4 - more of Wiccan and Hulkling and this issue spent a bit more time looking at Teddy's point of view, which is a refreshing change.

    Guardians Of The Galaxy #9 - no Phyla in this issue, but Moondragon was present and kicking ass. Also of note - the letters page confirmed that 616 Moondragon IS still alive...and hinted that she and the alternate reality Moondragon who is currently one of the Guardians may cross paths at some point.

    Magnificent Ms. Marvel #7 - Zoe is featured in this issue

    Anything else?

  14. #14639
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I didn't say I didn't understand it the point of it. I said I wish he was simpler. I wish it wasn't necessary to be connected to all this Maximoff mess.



    Because I want him single and dating. I get the sense Billy and Teddy are tied in fans' minds tighter than Kurt and Blaine, and that's exhausting. They're so young. Date other people.
    Ugh

    yAAAs to ALL this sh!t
    GrindrStone(D)

  15. #14640
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermie View Post
    Guardians Of The Galaxy #9 - no Phyla in this issue, but Moondragon was present and kicking ass. Also of note - the letters page confirmed that 616 Moondragon IS still alive...and hinted that she and the alternate reality Moondragon who is currently one of the Guardians may cross paths at some point.
    That's GREAT to hear. Hopefully they have plans for 616 Phyla as well.

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