LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[magisensei]

It's a bit sad that Angela is being canceled with issue 7 - for me at least it was one of my favorite new solo series from Marvel - it had good writing and nice art. It's sad that we will not get to see how her relationship progresses in the future - but for now we can wish them a happily ever after ending.

[Anduinel]

Actually, the big thing is that the on-going titles from DCYou were given a full twelve issue promise / order. They tried to break it with Omega Men and fans made them recommit, and they'd have done the same thing with Midnighter.

I thought that was just for Omega Men and Prez. But makes sense it would be across the whole line, though.

[Harpsikord]

I thought that was just for Omega Men and Prez. But makes sense it would be across the whole line, though.

It's definitely for the whole line, because Conner and Palmiotti made reference to it with Starfire too.

[NewMutant]

Possibly. With the usual caveat that the DM sales guesstimates are something like blurry half-view of the big sales picture, Midnighter's solo was selling at about 13K as of issue 5, and Angela's fifth issue is currently 2k up on that. But at the same time, Midnighter's getting a full 12 issues while it looks like Angela will be wrapping at 7, so there are likely other factors at play -- quicker stabilization (Angela's still losing double-digit percentages each month, while Mid started leveling out around issue 6), digital sales outside of the usual audience, decent pre-orders for the first trade, or DC having more faith in the long-term viability of the character. Something along those lines.

Actually, the big thing is that the on-going titles from DCYou were given a full twelve issue promise / order. They tried to break it with Omega Men and fans made them recommit, and they'd have done the same thing with Midnighter.

Midnighter also has critical acclaim and awards. However, DC did next to no advertising the series at all. So I'm not sure how they expected it to do well.

[t hedge coke]

Of course, Midnighter's not the only queer solo book DC has right now, and they're probably doing better on supporting characters, as well.

(Not that we should look to DC or Marvel to lead any sort of way in comics.)

[Kieran_Frost]

A mini, and I'm betting his sexuality won't be referenced at all. The solicit specifies him being a brother and a son, but not a sister and a daughter. That suggests the gender fluidity won't be coming up. And I wouldn't bet on his bisexuality coming up, either.

I think Ewing really dropped the ball, but I'm hopefully. At-least the series has Angela in it too (also I heard it had be confirmed as more than just a mini now). Still so disappointed how Ewing backed away from it; but he's slowly getting back my trust with New Avengers (though the future them was just painfully cliché).

I also still want a Mystique mini showing how she and Destiny met and fell in love.

Ohhhh, I'd read that. Who would get as the writer? I'd definitely have Anka on the art (he loves Mystique).

I was really hoping they would introduce Destiny in X-Men: Apocalypse and have Mystique end with her and them starting their own brotherhood. It would fit with the JLaw focus, play up the minority aspect - specifically LGBT that Singer sticks closest to, and continue the semi love triangle aspect of Mystique, Xavier, Magneto in a way that continues more into the comics.

Me too; it's a shame. Ditto about Northstar (who could have sooooooooo easily been in the last one).

Honestly, I think the reason a lot of people never had time for it was that Marvel gave the book very little advertising and had little idea of how to make Angela relevant to the MU after her intro. The only push Angela really got in the MU was as Thor and Loki's long-lost sister, who was then immediately shunted off to a side book. So she wasn't really integrated into her new mythology very well before having to carry her own title, her relaunch wasn't pushed as LGBT friendly, and Marvel's own EIC took the "oh, let's not label it" route when the question came up. There just wasn't much of a hook for the casual fan.

Still annoyed about that, bloody double standards!!! Herc is 100% str8, but Angela "I don't want to label." YAWN! Hence why them taking pot-shots at Georgia just comes off as insincere/dishonest.

[Reality]

Kieran makes a good point about Northstar. If Fox has the rights to him (which is unclear due to Alpha Flight being a separate property), then he would have been perfect to introduce in the 80's movie. They could have introduced the first gay superhero in the setting of one of the most important times for LGBT people. It would have been natural as hell.

I don't think the words of the editor in chief of the publishing wing of Marvel makes the whole company insincere when they threaten to boycott Georgia though. Just because there aren't that many queer characters that currently would work that well in a solo doesn't mean they want queer people (and others, as the "religious freedom" law is very broad) to be discriminated against.

Would be nice to have a Ms America book, though. She's probably the most marketable gay character Marvel currently has.

[dragonmp93]

I think Ewing really dropped the ball, but I'm hopefully. At-least the series has Angela in it too (also I heard it had be confirmed as more than just a mini now). Still so disappointed how Ewing backed away from it; but he's slowly getting back my trust with New Avengers (though the future them was just painfully cliché).


Ohhhh, I'd read that. Who would get as the writer? I'd definitely have Anka on the art (he loves Mystique).


Me too; it's a shame. Ditto about Northstar (who could have sooooooooo easily been in the last one).


Still annoyed about that, bloody double standards!!! Herc is 100% str8, but Angela "I don't want to label." YAWN! Hence why them taking pot-shots at Georgia just comes off as insincere/dishonest.

Well, Hercules and Angela are going fictional characters, while that bill is going to seriously affect real people on real life.

[Wiccan]

It's a bit sad that Angela is being canceled with issue 7 - for me at least it was one of my favorite new solo series from Marvel - it had good writing and nice art. It's sad that we will not get to see how her relationship progresses in the future - but for now we can wish them a happily ever after ending.

Angela is going to be helping Loki with his campaign actually. But I guess no Sera.

[Mah VM]

I think it's a matter of the low-selling books usually being the most unique ones. And unique generally means interesting. I loved Angela, too. Sera's a fantastic character. I'd be fine with Angela getting another shot, but she doesn't sell well. And I just really want Miss America to get a solo, dammit.

I never thought it would be a high-selling solo but if marvel just publishes a book about a lesser known character and don't make enough noise to get people to buy it...

Honestly, I think the reason a lot of people never had time for it was that Marvel gave the book very little advertising and had little idea of how to make Angela relevant to the MU after her intro. The only push Angela really got in the MU was as Thor and Loki's long-lost sister, who was then immediately shunted off to a side book. So she wasn't really integrated into her new mythology very well before having to carry her own title, her relaunch wasn't pushed as LGBT friendly, and Marvel's own EIC took the "oh, let's not label it" route when the question came up. There just wasn't much of a hook for the casual fan.

Agree with all of this. But by the "not having time for it" in my post I was refering to the people who were actually reading it and said they didn't like the tongue-in-cheek narration and pop culture references, which is the thing that I loved the most about it because it made for a fun adventure book that didn't took itself too seriously. It reminded me of Rat Queens.
Most people didn't even knew about the book or never felt like giving it a try which is why it got canned..

[t hedge coke]

Do we actually know that Ewing's going to downplay/not deal with lgbt elements, or are we making assumptions based on the solicits?

Because, honestly, when have solicits ever been thorough or even that accurate beyond basic plot?

[Tiamatty]

Do we actually know that Ewing's going to downplay/not deal with lgbt elements, or are we making assumptions based on the solicits?

Because, honestly, when have solicits ever been thorough or even that accurate beyond basic plot?

If you mean for Vote Loki, it's Chris Hastings writing, not Al Ewing. And sure, it's possible Hastings will include some LGBT stuff. Personally, I wouldn't bet on it. It's political satire, and primarily from the perspective of a journalist reporting on the campaign. So I suspect the "no room to explore it" argument will come into play, in regards to Loki being LGBT. I hope I'm wrong. Maybe Hastings will make use of both Loki's gender fluidity and bisexuality.

I'm just not going to expect it.

[Silvermoth]

I wonder if it would have more attention if they advertised as an LGBT book. I thought yes, but isn't Midnighter "Look, DC gay superhero series!" also flopping/cancelled/etc?

I think midnighter is one of those characters that could do with raising his star a little throughout various media like batwoman did and then trying again later. It's such a shame it wasn't embraced like it should have been.

Looking at current politics, Loki actually seems like a good alternative in America considering I wouldn't exactly call him 100% cisgendered. If he was in the real world he could play a Harvey milk esque role

[Kieran_Frost]

Do we actually know that Ewing's going to downplay/not deal with lgbt elements, or are we making assumptions based on the solicits?

Ewing isn't writing the new series, he wrote the last one (Loki: Agent of Asgard) that never mentioned Loki was bisexual.

Kieran makes a good point about Northstar. If Fox has the rights to him (which is unclear due to Alpha Flight being a separate property), then he would have been perfect to introduce in the 80's movie. They could have introduced the first gay superhero in the setting of one of the most important times for LGBT people. It would have been natural as hell.

Plus Wolverine is Canadian, so would know Alpha Flight (which explains how he "knows a guy" better than randomly... just knowing a guy).

I don't think the words of the editor in chief of the publishing wing of Marvel makes the whole company insincere when they threaten to boycott Georgia though. Just because there aren't that many queer characters that currently would work that well in a solo doesn't mean they want queer people (and others, as the "religious freedom" law is very broad) to be discriminated against.

In my experience the type of people who actual care about gay rights in the real world ALSO seek to emulate a more inclusive and openly supportive LGBT stance in their fictional work. We have an EiC who has proven, time and time again, that they don't care about LGBT characters or issues, not in any meaningful way (because they don't even know who their LGBT characters solo stars are: RE: Axel bierasing Herc). Doesn't mean they aren't LGBT supportive, just that they aren't actively interested in their LGBT solo stars (I mean if 4 names really THAT hard to learn? ). I would expect a good EiC to be able to instantly name (if asked) in the history of all their comics: 4 black solo stars, 4 latino solo stars, 4 female solo stars, etc. If they can't, then how can they be in a position to steer their company through an every growing diverse readership?

[numberthirty]

Plus Wolverine is Canadian, so would know Alpha Flight (which explains how he "knows a guy" better than randomly... just knowing a guy).

One little hitch in this...

Is their "Weapon X Program" actually Canadian? It seems like the kids were Americans and the base was on Three Mile Island.