LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[MasterOfMagnetism]

I'm not surprised. That kind of thinking is why representation is important in the first place. I get that not every character should be "turned" gay, but I also think the reasoning people seem to use against such stories have some innate prejudice. I get the platonic relationship angle Tiamatty posted about and completely agree. But I also don't get why people are so viciously against queer narratives on existing characters, as if those stories and experiences are invalid and make existing characters less of who they are, yet in the same medium we accept the most convoluted stories and retcons, but something that's grounded in reality (varying experiences of sexuality) is not okay?

Yes to all of this.

[Wiccan615]

yeah but why just be gay. if you love these women then why not be bi? i mean if he had such a romantic relationship with these women then he'll obviously continue to have some with others.

Because sexuality is not that simple and neither is being in the closet. I had romantic relationships with women and my feelings for them were genuine. But I was also denying my attraction to men. I came out a few years ago and my sexuality now overlaps considerably from when it did when I was in the closet. Sexuality isn't simple and saying that "it doesn't make sense" is dismissing a lot of people's experiences who went through the same thing. Again; sexuality is not that simple.

not only that but the way it's been played out was completely out of nowhere.no hint, build up, nor anything that pointed out that he was gay. all jean did was approach him and say that he was gay. it's just forced.

So? Doesn't take away the legitimacy of the story. Sometimes coming out doesn't have any build up irl either. A lot of people are "forced" out of the closet.

i say the whole jean messing with bobby thing would be alright because it was a stupid way of forcing diversity into a character like that and other comics have it worse. so the whole jean being a twat thing would be pretty much okay.

.......this line of thinking is just toxic. I'm sorry if you think having a character take on a queer narrative is a "stupid way of forcing diversity" on a character and if you think that a friend brainwashing another friend is more palpatable then a person struggling with their sexuality, then okay.

[Wiccan615]

it's because it's out of character for a character that has been around for about years. you can make them question their sexual interest but don't shove it down our throats just to get more audiance and force the whole diversity is alright thing down our throats. it was bad with wanting miles to replace peter or turn peter black and the number of racial changes to every character now they are trying to shove the whole steve / bucky relationship down our throats. if you also want to make a pre-existing character gay, do it in another universe.

Honey, you're not my moral high ground, don't tell me what's "right" or "wrong" to want in fiction, I suggest you stop while you're ahead. This is an LGBT appreciation thread and you're violating the rules.

[MegaJay]

I'm not really that big of a fan for #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend. This is kinda different from Iceman; Steve's a more well-rounded character and I think a gay plotline would feel right. With Iceman, it feels like no writer really knew what to do with him except make him the comic relief and all other attempts to make him cool (trenchcoat, Omega-level mutant) don't really work.

[marvelguy25]

Because sexuality is not that simple and neither is being in the closet. I had romantic relationships with women and my feelings for them were genuine. But I was also denying my attraction to men. I came out a few years ago and my sexuality now overlaps considerably from when it did when I was in the closet. Sexuality isn't simple and saying that "it doesn't make sense" is dismissing a lot of people's experiences who went through the same thing. Again; sexuality is not that simple.

i meant with the long history the character has had why not just be bi? i mean yeah you are into the same sex but if you still have some feeling towards women when meeting the right kind and have some bond with them then that doesn't automatically make you 100% gay. it just means with your past experience you are still you regardless of sexual interest when meeting the person.

So? Doesn't take away the legitimacy of the story. Sometimes coming out doesn't have any build up irl either. A lot of people are "forced" out of the closet.

yeah but like this? there wasn't any hint of either of the two ice men being gay. they just came out of nowhere and with the final chapter being somewhat worse.

.......this line of thinking is just toxic. I'm sorry if you think having a character take on a queer narrative is a "stupid way of forcing diversity" on a character and if you think that a friend brainwashing another friend is more palpatable then a person struggling with their sexuality, then okay.

i'm just saying that the way it's done is pretty poor. if they want to make a character that has been there for years gay then at least give us something that he / she was always like this. i mean if it's okay to make the 616 version of kitty pryde or sam wilson or even quicksilver be interested in the same sex then at least give us something while being a bit clever.

[Wiccan615]

There's not really an official handbook on "how to write a character." You just tell stories with them. And as far as I'm concerned, Bobby's story and experience is valid, whether people like it (or believe it) or not.

There's not one way to experience sexuality my friend.

I'm positive that if they made Kitty or Sam gay that there would be hundreds of people posting the same arguments you're posting.

[marvelguy25]

Honey, you're not my moral high ground, don't tell me what's "right" or "wrong" to want in fiction, I suggest you stop while you're ahead. This is an LGBT appreciation thread and you're violating the rules.

i'm not violating the rules. i'm just stating that it's a pretty stupid way to make a character that has been around for years become just gay or lesbian all of a sudden in a more out of nowhere way without a hint, foreshadow, or anything.

[marvelguy25]

I'm not really that big of a fan for #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend. This is kinda different from Iceman; Steve's a more well-rounded character and I think a gay plotline would feel right. With Iceman, it feels like no writer really knew what to do with him except make him the comic relief and all other attempts to make him cool (trenchcoat, Omega-level mutant) don't really work.

true. although don't make steve gay because with the whole bucky thing it wouldn't make sense because they were made to become good friends.

[marvelguy25]

There's not really an official handbook on "how to write a character." You just tell stories with them. And as far as I'm concerned, Bobby's story and experience is valid, whether people like it (or believe it) or not.

There's not one way to experience sexuality my friend.

i know. you can write your story however you want but don't make it out of nowhere where it kinda shows you have nothing to do with the character at all.

[marvelguy25]

There's not really an official handbook on "how to write a character." You just tell stories with them. And as far as I'm concerned, Bobby's story and experience is valid, whether people like it (or believe it) or not.

There's not one way to experience sexuality my friend.

I'm positive that if they made Kitty or Sam gay that there would be hundreds of people posting the same arguments you're posting.

well i meant also love the same sex meaning the can love both genders. but just do it in a way to give them a hint or anything as a new status quo.

[Wiccan615]

i'm not violating the rules. i'm just stating that it's a pretty stupid way to make a character that has been around for years become just gay or lesbian all of a sudden in a more out of nowhere way without a hint, foreshadow, or anything.

You're literally saying that a queer narrative is stupid in a thread about appreciating queer narratives. And as stated before having little to no foreshadowing doesn't take away from the legtitimacey of the story or experience, at least not to me. There wasn't a lot of foreshadowing when Northstar, Shatterstar, Rictor, Ms. America, etc came out either. Sexuality is such a personal thing and sometimes when people come out irl it is a surprise. It's obvious that Bobby wasn't written as being gay but that really doesn't make this development any less valid because it ecompasses an overall story that reflects a lot of people's experiences and isn't that a main draw in fiction? That's more important to me personally than a cherry picked concern for an already convoluted and self contradictory continuity-heavy medium.

i know. you can write your story however you want but don't make it out of nowhere where it kinda shows you have nothing to do with the character at all.

This statement contradicts itself.

[marvelguy25]

You're literally saying that a queer narrative is stupid in a thread about appreciating queer narratives

i'm not. i'm calling it bad / forced writing.

This statement contradicts itself.

i'm saying make it in character and not forced to a character that has never been that way for years.

[Bor]

i'm not. i'm calling it bad / forced writing.




i'm saying make it in character and not forced to a character that has never been that way for years.

What you call bad writing is what some of us call somewhat realistic writing. Well if you ignore the psychich part of it. I am not gay myself but I have known people who have come out late in life with no hints at all because of the struggle it was for them. Some of these had families and were married. Does this make their connection to their former wifes "not count"? No it does not. Its not like straight people have not fooled themselves into beliving they loved their partner because of various reasons to avoid changing their life completely.

Was this story handled perfectly? No, but its not as unrealistic as you make it sound.

[legion_quest]

i'm saying make it in character and not forced to a character that has never been that way for years.

Except that he was that way. This new development in his character makes it clear that he has been in the closet since he was a teen. All his female relationships were beards. He way gay through them all.

He's just had a 'later in life' coming out. It happens all the time, usually with even older males and can sometimes come after years of married life and even children.

His story may not be one you like, but it has a basis in the reality of that situation.

[Wiccan615]

What you call bad writing is what some of us call somewhat realistic writing. Well if you ignore the psychich part of it. I am not gay myself but I have known people who have come out late in life with no hints at all because of the struggle it was for them. Some of these had families and were married. Does this make their connection to their former wifes "not count"? No it does not. Its not like straight people have not fooled themselves into beliving they loved their partner because of various reasons to avoid changing their life completely.

Was this story handled perfectly? No, but its not as unrealistic as you make it sound.

Thank you! It gets annoying constantly having to tell people that your experience is real and it's nice to see it being reflected in fiction