View Poll Results: Who is your favourite 616 Marvel LGBT character?

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  • ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]

    26 3.56%
  • BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]

    12 1.64%
  • CULLEN BLOODSTONE

    20 2.74%
  • DAKEN AKIHIRO

    42 5.75%
  • HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]

    35 4.79%
  • KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]

    38 5.20%
  • KAROLINA DEAN

    43 5.88%
  • LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief

    62 8.48%
  • MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]

    38 5.20%
  • MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]

    107 14.64%
  • NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    59 8.07%
  • PRODIGY [David Alleyne]

    21 2.87%
  • RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]

    35 4.79%
  • SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]

    45 6.16%
  • WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan], the Demiurge

    148 20.25%
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  1. #14026
    Astonishing Member Drops Of Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism View Post
    No, in the comics Steve had an openly gay friend Arnie Roth who he rescued from kidnappers who tried to brainwash him. Accepting Billy and Teddy's relationship was not the first time Steve was shown to be supportive of gay people. Ironically when they changed MCU Bucky from a teenager to an adult friend of Steve's who helped protect him from bullies they were taking Arnie's backstory and giving it to Bucky. So despite the "Stucky" ship being so controversial MCU Bucky is literally partially based on a gay character.
    Huh. I actually thought about Steve having a gay friend in the past, but I believe it was one of those coded characters who weren't explicitly gay. I didn't know (or didn't remember) this Arnie guy at all. Thanks for letting me know, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher007 View Post
    Steve is supposed to represent the BEST that America has to offer, but sadly doesn't always live up to. So him not having a problem with LGBT fits that as well. I mean during WWII he had no problems having a Black man, and Japanese-American, and a woman as part of his "inner circle." Nor did he have a problem with Fury being in charge (well not based on his race, he more disagreed with Fury's tactics).
    Oh, I never thought for a second Steve would have a problem with minorities. It's just that a lot of people see his ''profile'' (white, straight, cis, old-fashioned, militar, christian male born in old times) and assume that he would be THAT kind of guy, you know? I actually saw an awful lot of people saying that Marvel turning Steve evil during Secret Empire was ''an attack against conversatives'' because they were trying to sully the image of a ''conservative'' character, LOL. But I never saw him like that, due to his backstory and the backstory of his creators. He always seemed like a pretty progressive character to me, like most Marvel characters, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by GraysonXIV View Post
    I admire your optimism and positive spin on this. If this is a first step, then absolutely it's a good thing. I'm just concerned how long it's going to take to get to an actually relevant, openly LGBT character to be in the MCU. We've already had 20+ movies that could have included this baby first step, so we'll see how many more movies it takes to get an openly LGBT hero to join the ranks. Progress could easily be made with Valkyrie or Carol or maybe with this potential Eternals character, but I'm not going to get my hopes up until we see it. Really hoping we see something more by the end of Phase 4...
    I agree it took longer than it should have, but isn't that also true for LGBTQ rights in general? There are so many things we've only achieved in recent times, and there's still SO many we still need to. Marvel movies are just a reflection of our slow society, unfortunately. And I am pretty confident about the upcoming Eternals movie. I mean, Marvel openly casting a gay actor is something they never bothered to do before, so something tells me they are thinking differently this time around. We'll see.

  2. #14027
    Astonishing Member MasterOfMagnetism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Huh. I actually thought about Steve having a gay friend in the past, but I believe it was one of those coded characters who weren't explicitly gay. I didn't know (or didn't remember) this Arnie guy at all. Thanks for letting me know, though.
    It was pretty explicit. I don't have the pic saved on my computer but if you search for "Marvel Arnie Roth" on Google images you should easily find a comics panel where Steve literally says that Arnie's love for his boyfriend is just as valid as Steve's love for his girlfriend.

  3. #14028
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drops Of Venus View Post
    Sooo, I just watched Endgame and I have to say, I'm pleased with the LGBTQ representation we got. Was it much? No. But the directors never promised it was going to be much. They never even confirmed the film was going to have a queer character; one of them just said it was going to happen sooner than we think. I appreciate the fact that they didn't try to make a big deal out of it or advertise it as something that wasn't going to be there. Not queerbaiting your audience is a good sart. It was a single short scene, but the fact that we had an EXPLICIT mention of someone feeling a same-sex attraction in the biggest movie Marvel Studios has ever produced meant a lot, IMO. It showed us that Marvel is ready. It showed us just how easy it is to make it happen. And the fact that spoilers:
    it was a character played by one of the directors made that a very, very special scene, because they knew it was a scene people were going to pay attention to and talk about. And yeah, it's likely we're never gonna see that character again
    end of spoilers, but I don't think that's the point. I think the point was to really just take that first step and show us that we can expect a certain kind of diversity and representation going forward. I always imagined that's how their first queer character was going to be done anyway. It doesn't mean it's going to be like that forever.

    And oh, I just loved how spoilers:
    Steve seemed very ok with the guy talking about his date with another man. As the Young Avengers fanboy that I am, it kind of reminded me of that glorious moment in the comics where he says he doesn't have any problem with Billy and Teddy's relationship, which was, IIRC, probably the first time we had Steve Rogers ever explicitly supporting LGBTQ people in the comics.
    end of spoilers
    I have seen a lot of disdain for the endgame rep but I have to agree with this take.

    While we absolutely deserve better, I wasn’t expecting anything at all in endgame. This is quite possibly the biggest film of all time, releasing in countries where being gay is still illegal and punishable. These things take time and even steps like this do matter. It’s also likely incredibly hard for directors/writers to get approval from execs to even do things like this. The MCU absolutely ought to do better but this was still both refreshing and unexpected to me.
    "It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism."
    -Mary Robinette Kowal

  4. #14029
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism View Post
    It was pretty explicit. I don't have the pic saved on my computer but if you search for "Marvel Arnie Roth" on Google images you should easily find a comics panel where Steve literally says that Arnie's love for his boyfriend is just as valid as Steve's love for his girlfriend.
    Yep. Given the Comics Code restrictions of the time, they couldn't actually come out and say the word "gay", but the writing was very clear that Arnie was gay and was in a relationship with a man--and that Steve knew about it and supported him. When Arnie was later targeted by Baron Zemo as one of Cap's closest friends, Zemo used some homophobic slurs when taunting Arnie as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfMagnetism
    Ironically when they changed MCU Bucky from a teenager to an adult friend of Steve's who helped protect him from bullies they were taking Arnie's backstory and giving it to Bucky. So despite the "Stucky" ship being so controversial MCU Bucky is literally partially based on a gay character.
    Exactly. Given how many people saw potential romantic chemistry between MCU Steve and Bucky, its amusing to realize that a lot of the inspiration for MCU Bucky is from Steve's gay best friend.
    Last edited by Dermie; 04-28-2019 at 10:04 PM.

  5. #14030
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    Of course, the big news in Marvel this week is the movie, but let's check in with the comics now....

    The Week In Gay:

    Age Of X-Man: X-Tremists #3 of 5 - more with Northstar, Iceman and Psylocke

    Amazing Spider-Man #20 - "Hunted" arc continues, with Black Cat as one of many guest stars.

    Mr & Mrs X #10 - no particular LGBT content in this one (aside from Remy's not-quite-official bisexuality), but we've got a bit of Gambit abs and a tiny glimpse of Gambit butt. And some developments that may be of interest to any Spiral fans in the audience.

    Runaways #20

    War Of The Realms: Uncanny X-Men #1 of 3 - Karma. And for the old school readers...an appearance by Nanny and Orphan Maker! How long has it been since those two last showed up anywhere?!

    Anything I missed?

  6. #14031
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    It was some good stuff.




    (Despite the last panels there, Arnie survives.)

  7. #14032
    Spectacular Member scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan615 View Post
    I have seen a lot of disdain for the endgame rep but I have to agree with this take.

    While we absolutely deserve better, I wasn’t expecting anything at all in endgame. This is quite possibly the biggest film of all time, releasing in countries where being gay is still illegal and punishable. These things take time and even steps like this do matter. It’s also likely incredibly hard for directors/writers to get approval from execs to even do things like this. The MCU absolutely ought to do better but this was still both refreshing and unexpected to me.
    I don't think there's disdain for the rep itself so much as the Russo's "Look at us! We gave you super important gay representation! Isn't it huge and a big character and you should praise us and expect nothing more!" attitude. They barely threw a crumb and they expect to be treated like we got a whole buffet. The fact that there are fans acting like we should just settle for these little bits of nothing and be glad is fairly irritating as well.

    And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. Is not a valid excuse anymore.

  8. #14033
    Astonishing Member MasterOfMagnetism's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. It's not a valid excuse anymore.
    That's the problem though, these movie studios aren't going to pass on more money. Yes they'll make billions regardless, but if including LGBT representation will hold them back from making even more than they're going to choose the most lucrative option.
    Last edited by MasterOfMagnetism; 04-29-2019 at 06:56 AM.

  9. #14034
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scourge View Post
    I don't think there's disdain for the rep itself so much as the Russo's "Look at us! We gave you super important gay representation! Isn't it huge and a big character and you should praise us and expect nothing more!" attitude. They barely threw a crumb and they expect to be treated like we got a whole buffet. The fact that there are fans acting like we should just settle for these little bits of nothing and be glad is fairly irritating as well.

    And honestly, forget those countries. Even if they're stupid enough to try banning such a huge movie, the studio is still going to make BILLIONS. Is not a valid excuse anymore.
    I have seen a lot of disdain for the rep itself, so much so that it’s hard to even talk about it in a positive light without being dogpiled on :/

    I don’t know how much I actually agree with the whole Russo’s “you should praise us” narrative either....they never actually said anything like that? All I saw was “this was important to us and we wanted to do it authentically.” Which ofc, is still not beyond criticism but a lot of times I feel what they actually said gets misrepresented.

    Again, like I said, we absolutely deserve better and people trying to mute our criticism and desire for better representation are never worth our time. Simultaneously, even little steps like this do matter, especially since it’s not that easy to get approval in the first place. It’s easy to say “those countries don’t matter” and I wish it were that easy, but greedy execs and corporations will often prioritize squeezing out every penny they can get. And again, in a context like that, these steps do matter, imo.
    "It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism."
    -Mary Robinette Kowal

  10. #14035
    Mighty Member NexusTenebrare's Avatar
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    That scene is going to do nothing to the homophobic markets like Russia. An editor can and undoubtedly will easily cut it out of the movie. That's why it was such an insignificant scene.
    If it was truelly that important to the Russo's, they could've authentically introduced an actual important gay superhero by now. By far the easiest they could've included without any of the problems surrounding the YA would've been Living Lightning.
    #EmmaWasRight

  11. #14036
    Incredible Member Wiccan615's Avatar
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    While I agree that editors can and will cut things like that out, it’s moreso the “getting approval from higher ups that still prioritize homophobic mindsets” that is the tricky line to balance. The west doesn’t exactly embrace us either, there aren’t a lot of Hollywood blockbusters that feature us in any meaningful roles, after all.

    It’s easy to denounce what the Russo’s could have or should have done, and I agree with all of that, but also how long did it take for the MCU to get a solo film with a female or PoC lead? There’s a lot of things that they ought to do better imo (and it’s always important to discuss and deconstruct that) but it ultimately comes down to those in power and what they prioritize. With the recent success of BP and CM, I wouldn’t be surprised if they become a bit more liberal with representation and hopefully the responses they’ve been getting encourage them to do better.
    Last edited by Wiccan615; 04-29-2019 at 09:47 AM.
    "It's not about adding diversity for the sake of diversity, it's about subtracting homogeneity for the sake of realism."
    -Mary Robinette Kowal

  12. #14037
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    It is great that Brie Larson is making noise for LGBT content too, on top of the general push for more representation from her and others.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...representation

  13. #14038
    Astonishing Member Silvermoth's Avatar
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    I honestly think she’s wonderful. I adored the movie she made called “Unicorn store”

  14. #14039
    Astonishing Member MasterOfMagnetism's Avatar
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    Ok, so I finally got to see Avengers: Endgame for myself. The moment with the gay character is nice and I do appreciate one of the directors himself making sure it was in the movie, but after all these years it definitely wasn't the representation I've been waiting for from the MCU.

    Anyway now we're all back to waiting for any more information to come out (pun not intended) about The Eternals and it's possible openly gay character.

  15. #14040
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    I do wish they could have done something more with what they had. I'm sure the movie wasn't an easy one to write and trying to incorporate LGBT elements were just another thing to consider, but it could have been done.

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