LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[ZNOP]

Speaking of which I always liked origin idea for Kurt of Destiny being his mother and Mystique his father.

Can you post the source of said "Original Idea" so we can all see and experience the same page your on?

[MegaJay]

America has gotten progressively better since the first issue, but I had no problems dropping it from my list. I don't think that Rivera needs to be replaced because of the writing is genuinely good, it just seems like the book isn't edited well. Like that one panel should've been caught in editing. And maybe someone needs to step in with some guidance as this is her first comic book.

And I don't mind America being somewhat different that her YA version and I can get how she will be unwieldy to someone who just started writing comics. Her powerset is very powerful and it'll be hard to add drama or stakes because she could basically solve anything. But maybe just keep it a character study and grounded and it'll be fine.

[Drops Of Venus]

a better writer or writing wouldn't make the sales higher. a lot of good books don't sell so well on Direct market

Not the point I was trying to make. I was just saying that we don't know the full picture of sales, that's all. And my request for a co-writer for Gabby had nothing to do with sales. I just want the book to be better, despite of how much it's selling.

Can you post the source of said "Original Idea" so we can all see and experience the same page your on?

EDIT: I stand corrected. Look at Sutekh's post below.

[Sutekh]

Can you post the source of said "Original Idea" so we can all see and experience the same page your on?

It's all over the internet. From Nightcrawler's Wiki entry,

Veteran X-Men writer Chris Claremont had intended for the mutant terrorist Mystique and her lover Destiny to have been Nightcrawler's biological parents.[79] Mystique, being a shapeshifter, would have taken the form of a man and impregnated Destiny. However, Marvel felt the idea to be too controversial and an alternative origin was developed.[80]

CBR quotes John Byrne confirming it. (Whether or not you consider John Byrne a reliable narrator is your choice.)

Other confirmations from Lobdell and Claremont himself from this site;

Lobdell did not follow Claremont’s ideas, but he knew about them. He explained his reason for going in another direction to Seriejournalen.dk: “It was always Chris’ plan that Mystique and Irene Adler (Destiny) were lovers, and that Mystique at one point had transformed into a man and impregnated Destiny and she gave birth to Nightcrawler. So Mystique and Destiny were actually Nightcrawler’s father and mother.”
“The likelyhood of either A, Mystique growing genitals with sperm that had a DNA-code, or B, Mystique being a guy who was perpetually in the body of a woman, I thought was pretty slim.”
Instead, Lobdell had Mystique be Nightcrawler’s mother with Destiny playing no part in the equation.

Claremont told about his choice for Nightcrawler’s parents in his online Cordially Chris forum: “As for when Mystique and Irene got together, look at the back-story established in X-Treme X-Men # 1 and 2 (2001); check out the fashions and the social culture in the visuals.”

And those were the first three Google hits on the subject. I got bored.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

That article confused me, since both Destiny and Mystique are already gay (or bi). I was like, "How can this be a thing? Almost half the people in that picture are gay. Does anybody not know this?" and then it was all about Pyro...

Yes but back then Mystique and Destiny weren't confirmed to be a couple, it was all just "subtext". It sounds like they originally had plans to make it clear that Pyro was gay, unlike Mystique and Destiny's relationship being no more than subtext until not too long ago.

[Drops Of Venus]

I was reading some early pages from when this thread was created, and I saw Genis-Vell's name come up within the subject of LGBTQ characters. Can anyone elaborate on that?

[Jokerz79]

Can you post the source of said "Original Idea" so we can all see and experience the same page your on?

I don't know if it was the original but it was an idea for his origin at one time.

However, the graphic novel never appeared either, and Nightcrawler’s origin ended up being written by Scott Lobdell in X-Men Unlimited #4, 1994, instead. Lobdell did not follow Claremont’s ideas, but he knew about them. He explained his reason for going in another direction to Seriejournalen.dk: “It was always Chris’ plan that Mystique and Irene Adler (Destiny) were lovers, and that Mystique at one point had transformed into a man and impregnated Destiny and she gave birth to Nightcrawler. So Mystique and Destiny were actually Nightcrawler’s father and mother.”

“The likelyhood of either A, Mystique growing genitals with sperm that had a DNA-code, or B, Mystique being a guy who was perpetually in the body of a woman, I thought was pretty slim.”

Instead, Lobdell had Mystique be Nightcrawler’s mother with Destiny playing no part in the equation.

Got that from this link http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...en-origin.html

But it is something I've heard since the 90's. Oh didn't see the other post sorry.

[spirit2011]

That's the salt in the wound, though, isn't it? Carol's got a movie coming and will get relaunched no matter how badly the direction of the last book foundered. A book like America will get "¯\_(ツ)_/¯ We tried!" and maybe a second chance in a decade or whatever.

Maybe, but Marvel usually give many runs to minor characters

[NexusTenebrare]

“The likelyhood of either A, Mystique growing genitals with sperm that had a DNA-code, or B, Mystique being a guy who was perpetually in the body of a woman, I thought was pretty slim.”

If Lobdell thought the likelyhood of a shapeshifter using their ability in creative ways was slim then he has a very mundane and unimaginative view of shapeshifting.

[Jokerz79]

If Lobdell thought the likelyhood of a shapeshifter using their ability in creative ways was slim then he has a very mundane and unimaginative view of shapeshifting.

I thought it was a lovely idea Mystique wanted a child with the person she loved Irene and she could have it due to her mutation.

[ZNOP]

I don't know if it was the original but it was an idea for his origin at one time.

However, the graphic novel never appeared either, and Nightcrawler’s origin ended up being written by Scott Lobdell in X-Men Unlimited #4, 1994, instead. Lobdell did not follow Claremont’s ideas, but he knew about them. He explained his reason for going in another direction to Seriejournalen.dk: “It was always Chris’ plan that Mystique and Irene Adler (Destiny) were lovers, and that Mystique at one point had transformed into a man and impregnated Destiny and she gave birth to Nightcrawler. So Mystique and Destiny were actually Nightcrawler’s father and mother.”

“The likelyhood of either A, Mystique growing genitals with sperm that had a DNA-code, or B, Mystique being a guy who was perpetually in the body of a woman, I thought was pretty slim.”

Instead, Lobdell had Mystique be Nightcrawler’s mother with Destiny playing no part in the equation.

Got that from this link http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...en-origin.html

But it is something I've heard since the 90's. Oh didn't see the other post sorry.

So, when you boil it all down Lobdell's printed story is canon, huh?

[ZNOP]

I don't know if it was the original but it was an idea for his origin at one time.

However, the graphic novel never appeared either, and Nightcrawler’s origin ended up being written by Scott Lobdell in X-Men Unlimited #4, 1994, instead. Lobdell did not follow Claremont’s ideas, but he knew about them. He explained his reason for going in another direction to Seriejournalen.dk: “It was always Chris’ plan that Mystique and Irene Adler (Destiny) were lovers, and that Mystique at one point had transformed into a man and impregnated Destiny and she gave birth to Nightcrawler. So Mystique and Destiny were actually Nightcrawler’s father and mother.”

“The likelyhood of either A, Mystique growing genitals with sperm that had a DNA-code, or B, Mystique being a guy who was perpetually in the body of a woman, I thought was pretty slim.”

Instead, Lobdell had Mystique be Nightcrawler’s mother with Destiny playing no part in the equation.

Got that from this link http://secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot...en-origin.html

But it is something I've heard since the 90's. Oh didn't see the other post sorry.

So, when you boil it all down Lobdell's printed story is canon, huh?

[dragonmp93]

So, when you boil it all down Lobdell's printed story is canon, huh?

Yeah, who is saying otherwise ?.

[Wiccan]

So, when you boil it all down Lobdell's printed story is canon, huh?

He said Mystique being the father was the original idea, not the canon. Why do you always have such a hard time to understand anything?

[Jokerz79]

He said Mystique being the father was the original idea, not the canon. Why do you always have such a hard time to understand anything?

Yeah exactly I never said it was canon just that it was an idea for his origin at one time and I liked it better.