LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Beetle]

I wouldnt say it was obvious all the way through, but it was by the end.

By saying she doesn't like boys, she's made it canon clear to most she's a lesbian, which a lot more canon than Mystique's bisexuality has ever been explicitly made. The other option would be a-sexuality. Or animals.

With Chavez, she did at least state that she's not interested in men. She could be gay, or she could be asexual. Gay is more likely, but asexuality is certainly a possibility, and until we get on-panel confirmation one way or the other, the best we can do is say she's not straight.

I just wanted it acknowledged that Gillen wasn't completely clear and it was very possible that she could have been Asexual (which personally I think would fit her character arc in the series more)

Right now, Mystique is basically "straight with an exception." There's nothing on-panel that actually confirms any sexual or romantic interest in women other than Destiny, while there's extensive evidence of romantic and sexual interest in men. And even her relationship with Destiny was largely subtext (partly because Destiny died before the ban on gay characters was lifted).

I'm not attracted to men. If I wind up falling in love with a guy, I'm still going to identify as straight, because I still wouldn't be attracted to men. That's the situation, right now, with Mystique, at least until some writer actually decides to put something on-panel that does confirm that, yes, she is, in fact, bisexual. She is, at the absolute best, a closeted bisexual.

And no, a woman doesn't stop being bisexual just because she sleeps with men. But when she exclusively sleeps with men, flirts exclusively with men, and otherwise shows an interest exclusively in men, then she definitely leans a lot more towards the straight end of the spectrum.

Her relationship with Destiny is more significant than almost all of her relationships with men. It's still a huge part of her character and her motivations. She recently planned to betray the Shadow King for his part in her death. No romantic relationship she's had with any guy has ever come even close to meaning as much.

And she's never identified as straight either.

[Mark]

I didn't know that there were that many.

[Anduinel]

At this stage, even comics wise, those two are pretty borderline. Loki is more by default because of the Tumblr folk and a comment from his current writer and Mystique was like, one woman, decades ago

You may be thinking of Deadpool. Loki flirted with Prodigy in Gillen's YA, so his bisexuality, while it could certainly use more exploration, isn't just meta.

[Tiamatty]

I just wanted it acknowledged that Gillen wasn't completely clear and it was very possible that she could have been Asexual (which personally I think would fit her character arc in the series more)

Yeah, it's definitely a possibility. Gay is more likely. And actually, even with asexuality, there's still the possibility of being homoromantic. We know she's neither heterosexual nor heteroromantic, at least.

Her relationship with Destiny is more significant than almost all of her relationships with men. It's still a huge part of her character and her motivations. She recently planned to betray the Shadow King for his part in her death. No romantic relationship she's had with any guy has ever come even close to meaning as much.

And she's never identified as straight either.

Yes, her relationship with Destiny was very much a defining experience. But as I said, one instance does not make a bisexual. Bisexuality is an attraction to both genders. A bisexual woman may go her whole life without actually so much as kissing another woman, but she does have that attraction. We actually don't know if Mystique is attracted to other women, or if Destiny was simply a very special exception.

We have seen Mystique using sexuality as a tool against men, but not women. We've seen her sleep with plenty of men - including men she kinda hates - but never a woman. Even when she sleeps with someone just for fun and pleasure, she finds a man.

And she's never identified as straight, but statistically speaking, straight actually is the default.

[Dermie]

To be fair to Bendis he's been pretty good at supporting LGBT characters. He created Victoria Hand and Benjamin Deeds (fulfilling his promise that one of his cast was LGBT -- take not Hickman!!!); and he brought Daken into the Dark Avengers, giving him a MAJOR profile boost and resulting in (arguably) the first ever LGBT solo series at Marvel. He's also made Billy Sorcerer Supreme in the future X-men; which is pretty cool.

Also in his ALIAS series, a few of Jessica Jones' cases involved LGBT characters. So yeah, his track record for LGBT representation is pretty good. Nothing really in Guardians of the Galaxy so far...although there was one comment a few issues ago implying Angela might be bisexual. We'll see.

He killed Victoria Hand at the end of his Avengers run. He also unceremoniously killed Jennifer Kale who was bisexual.

Yes, he killed Victoria--but since he also created her, I don't think that one should really be held against him. We wouldn't have had her at all in the first place if it wasn't for him. And yes, he killed Jennifer Kale...but he also killed plenty of straight characters. Scott Lang, Dr. Voodoo, Echo, Ares, Sentry, Lindy Reynolds, etc.. Bendis has killed off more straight characters than he has LGBT ones, and he has written more LGBT characters into his stories than plenty of other writers have.

It IS unfortunate that his final Avengers arc did kill off 2 LGBT characters in a single arc--but given his overall track record of LGBT inclusiveness, I think we can chalk that up to accidental unfortunate implications rather than some anti-gay bias.

[Dermie]

They were cosmically powerful female characters in Guardians of the Galaxy. Then Bendis starting writing it, so it was back to 'we have space for a non-powered assassin chick.'

Not true. Abnett and Lanning killed Phyla off, long before Bendis started writing the Guardians. And Gamora was already part of the cast back when Phyla and Moondragon were around, so neither of them were dropped to make room for her.

Its true that Bendis hasn't used Moondragon in his run thus far...but he also hasn't used Bug or Jack Flag or Vance Astro who were also all part of the book's previous volume. Its not like he simply dumped the lesbians. *lol*

[Kieran_Frost]

I think KF meant one where it'd actually be acknowledged.

The MCU isn't the same as the comic universe.
As such there is no real reason to assume that Mystique in the MCU is actually bisexual. Same with Loki.

Correct on both counts!

Loki flirted with Prodigy in Gillen's YA, so his bisexuality, while it could certainly use more exploration, isn't just meta.

Correct. Can't find the panel where he asks if Prodigy wants to kiss him, but I've found the bit straight after.

He killed Victoria Hand at the end of his Avengers run. He also unceremoniously killed Jennifer Kale who was bisexual. Until its retconned Jennifer is dead. And so is Victoria. Meanwhile Daimon, the straight white guy lives. Bendis is not exactly the greatest ally.

Yes, he killed Victoria--but since he also created her, I don't think that one should really be held against him. We wouldn't have had her at all in the first place if it wasn't for him. And yes, he killed Jennifer Kale...but he also killed plenty of straight characters. Scott Lang, Dr. Voodoo, Echo, Ares, Sentry, Lindy Reynolds, etc.. Bendis has killed off more straight characters than he has LGBT ones, and he has written more LGBT characters into his stories than plenty of other writers have.
It IS unfortunate that his final Avengers arc did kill off 2 LGBT characters in a single arc--but given his overall track record of LGBT inclusiveness, I think we can chalk that up to accidental unfortunate implications rather than some anti-gay bias.

Dermie answered this perfectly.

Also in his ALIAS series, a few of Jessica Jones' cases involved LGBT characters. So yeah, his track record for LGBT representation is pretty good. Nothing really in Guardians of the Galaxy so far...although there was one comment a few issues ago implying Angela might be bisexual. We'll see.

Good to know about Alias, and agreed Bendis' track record is good. If more writers at Marvel created and included half as many LGBT characters into their casts as Bendis, we'd have far more LGBT characters consistently in main casts, we'd already have the first openly LGBT Avenger, and we'd have LGBT characters in important roles/leading teams of major books.

To be fair, I don't think a write necessarily has to have their characters just out and out say it for it to be true. In fact, that can actually be a bad thing at times. It's pretty damn obvious that MAC was a lesbian, a lot of people caught onto it pretty quickly. Just like a lot of people caught onto Wiccan and Hulkling being gay and in a relationship during the first YA series, before it was confirmed outright. It's called subtext, and hinting, and reading between the lines. And it can sometimes be more interesting then just having the characters say "I'm gay."

I agree IN THEORY. But that same logic leads to "one of the Avengers if LGBT" by Hickman... yet 24+ issues later, we are none-the-wiser. Both Bendis and Hickman stated "one of the my cast is LGBT"; Bendis lived up to that promise, Hickman has yet to do that. And based on the previous example of Stonewall... we might never find out.

Right now, Mystique is basically "straight with an exception." There's nothing on-panel that actually confirms any sexual or romantic interest in women other than Destiny, while there's extensive evidence of romantic and sexual interest in men. And even her relationship with Destiny was largely subtext (partly because Destiny died before the ban on gay characters was lifted).
I'm not attracted to men. If I wind up falling in love with a guy, I'm still going to identify as straight, because I still wouldn't be attracted to men. That's the situation, right now, with Mystique, at least until some writer actually decides to put something on-panel that does confirm that, yes, she is, in fact, bisexual. She is, at the absolute best, a closeted bisexual.
And no, a woman doesn't stop being bisexual just because she sleeps with men. But when she exclusively sleeps with men, flirts exclusively with men, and otherwise shows an interest exclusively in men, then she definitely leans a lot more towards the straight end of the spectrum.
Yes, her relationship with Destiny was very much a defining experience. But as I said, one instance does not make a bisexual. Bisexuality is an attraction to both genders. A bisexual woman may go her whole life without actually so much as kissing another woman, but she does have that attraction. We actually don't know if Mystique is attracted to other women, or if Destiny was simply a very special exception.
We have seen Mystique using sexuality as a tool against men, but not women. We've seen her sleep with plenty of men - including men she kinda hates - but never a woman. Even when she sleeps with someone just for fun and pleasure, she finds a man.

This is beautifully put, and I agree with it 100%. Which is why I don't really "count" Mystique's solo series as Marvel's first ever LGBT on-going solo series, because a) her sexuality was never referenced, b) out side of Destiny, Mystique never shows any interest in woman. You can sleep with someone of the same gender, even fall in love with them, doesn't mean you are bisexual. Bisexuality is more than about one specific person, it's about sexual preferences. I agree, to date Mystique is "straight with an exception" (or "gay for Destiny"). I could buy the arguement her love for Destiny is so strong, she doesn't want to be with any other woman because she's had perfection. BUT that hasn't been stated in any comics, so (for now) it's just a fan-fiction explanation; and not canon.

[Greg]

If a character people know as straight doesn't have a love interest in a series, he's not straight?

[Kieran_Frost]

If a character people know as straight doesn't have a love interest in a series, he's not straight?

In regard to Mystique, I look at it this way: if the first ever latino comic featured a character who never took off their mask, referenced themselves as latino in any way, or gave any hint to the fact they were latino, from latino heritage, spoke Hispanic, etc (but we believed they were latino from when they were on a team book) would you count that as the first ever latino solo series? Or would you count the following series that actually acknowledged the star was latino?

[Greg]

In regard to Mystique, I look at it this way: if the first ever latino comic featured a character who never took off their mask, referenced themselves as latino in any way, or gave any hint to the fact they were latino, from latino heritage, spoke Hispanic, etc (but we believed they were latino from when they were on a team book) would you count that as the first ever latino solo series? Or would you count the following series that actually acknowledged the star was latino?

Yes, I would.

[Anduinel]

Yeah, it's definitely a possibility. Gay is more likely. And actually, even with asexuality, there's still the possibility of being homoromantic. We know she's neither heterosexual nor heteroromantic, at least.

When it comes to MAC, I'm willing to go along with Gillen's intent since 1) there's enough on the page to support Gillen's stated intent without the reader having to squint, 2) he's put enough queer characters whose sexuality is explicitly stated in the book that I trust he's not trying to slide her under the radar to avoid upsetting conservative readers while still getting backpats for being progressive (see: Rowling with Dumbledore; Van Lente/Pak with 616!Herc). Not that I think his intent negates anyone's reading of her as ace or whathave, just my two cents.

[Kieran_Frost]

Yes, I would.

Fair enough; but I don't. In my opinion Daken is the first LGBT solo series at Marvel.

[legion_quest]

Fair enough; but I don't. In my opinion Daken is the first LGBT solo series at Marvel.

I agree. On all counts

[Kieran_Frost]

Another awesome piece of fan art; with many of Marvel's LGBT heroes in it. Enjoy.



Also, I didn't know the View discussed this, cool!

[Darthfury78]

Fair enough; but I don't. In my opinion Daken is the first LGBT solo series at Marvel.

Wouldn't that be Felicia Hardy? It was hinted that she's into women more than men, whose she uses for their money. I believe that Felicia is the first LGBT rather than Daken.