LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Starleafgirl]

It's taken them a decade and 3 phases to make a movies about a black guy and a woman. And that's after they made movies about Ant-Man and the talking raccoon. I'm not holding my breath.

Exactly. Although, considering they made a movie with a talking raccoon and a walking tree, GotG 2 is the most likely suspect to introduce LGBT characters into the MCU (for bucking the stuffy conservative trend).

Interestingly they said Agent Hartley was supposed to be a lesbian, but they were worried that it would seem homophobic to introduce an LGBT character just to kill her off after one episode.

That is interesting! Instead, I'm pretty sure she and the British merc dude were a thing...

*pause*

They did kill off their one lesbian agent already, so I'm not surprised they'd be worried about backlash.

[Tiamatty]

Interestingly they said Agent Hartley was supposed to be a lesbian, but they were worried that it would seem homophobic to introduce an LGBT character just to kill her off after one episode.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. They made the right choice in not making her gay. It just would've been bad.

[Kieran_Frost]

I'm glad you got Wiccan on the quiz Kieran.

It's taken them a decade and 3 phases to make a movies about a black guy and a woman. And that's after they made movies about Ant-Man and the talking raccoon. I'm not holding my breath.

While I understand and agree with the sentiment; it is important to note it may have taken a decade for a POC or female solo; but they've been in nearly all the films/TV shows in some role. We can't even get a one episode LGBT character. We can't even get a five line agent in the films. We can't get a third tier supporting villain. To date, it's (unintentional) quasi-"canon" that gay people just don't exist in the MCU.

I do think there's a chance we could see Moondragon and possibly Quasar in the Guardians sequel though since the director said he wants to explore Drax's backstory. Come to think of it they probably have the best chance of making it to the big screen out of all Marvel's LGBT superheroes. They've already marketed the GOTG franchise as their offbeat series about outlaws ,assassins and antiheroes so they'd probably have much less backlash than they would trying to introduce a gay or bisexual hero in one of the Avengers movie.

As far as the Marvel Cinematic Universe goes I honestly think that the first openly LGBT character would be introduced in one of their TV shows, which I suppose is not very "Cinematic" after all. To be fair Victoria Hand was already on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. they just didn't make it know she was a lesbian. And we don't know all that much about who is going to be in their upcoming shows either; Agent Carter and the future Netflix series, it's possible that an LGBT character could appear in any of those shows, at least an original character could be anyways.

I'm kinda hoping that they include Brian Falsworth as Union Jack, it's the MCU so they can just change it so that Brian survived WWII. Union Jack would make a good ally to the early S.H.I.E.L.D. Of course that's probably a longshot.

I'm loving all these ideas. So... outside of creating new characters, our best bet is (I agree)
- Brian Falsworth in Captain America III
- Moondragon or Phylaa in GotG II
- outing Loki in Thor III
- outing Mystique in X-men: AoA (I know this isn't MCU; it would still be huge progress)

Since there is no LGBT Avenger in comics, it just seems highly unlikely the Avengers films would include an LGBT Avenger.

I'm actually impressed by the racial diversity of casting Zoe Saldana.

The entire cast is racially progressive. How many POC are there? 4? 5? That is surely the record for any superhero movie? (that said, nearly all of them had their skin colour changed to something else... so it's still = swings and roundabouts).

Interestingly they said Agent Hartley was supposed to be a lesbian, but they were worried that it would seem homophobic to introduce an LGBT character just to kill her off after one episode.

What P*SSES ME OFF about learning this (but thankyou for the info)... the moment that realisation came up, the first thing discussed after that epiphany should have been: "shouldn't we add an LGBT character, because surely this discussion reminded us we've never had one". UGH!!!

Such a wasted opportunity. I love Saffron Barrows (from Boston Legal). Is she still dating theatre goddess Fiona Shaw?

[Starleafgirl]

What P*SSES ME OFF about learning this (but thankyou for the info)... the moment that realisation came up, the first thing discussed after that epiphany should have been: "shouldn't we add an LGBT character, because surely this discussion reminded us we've never had one". UGH!!!

Such a wasted opportunity. I love Saffron Barrows (from Boston Legal). Is she still dating theatre goddess Fiona Shaw?

As of 2013, doesn't seem like it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...irlfriend.html

But I want to be clear: Victoria Hand is a lesbian in the comics. There's no reason to think she wasn't one on the SHIELD TV show... they just never really delved into her personal life / love life before killing her off.

I still think she was one. There's a heavy Whedon influence on the show.

EDIT: interview with the creators of SHIELD:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/24/ag...son2-spoilers/

It seemed like you were going to explore Isabelle being the late Victoria Hand’s (Safrron Burrows) love interest from the comics.
Jed Whedon: There were versions, but it started to be irresponsible if we addressed it to not address it with more weight and time and energy.
Maurissa Tancharoen: And then we would’ve been known as the people who killed off two lesbians on the show.

So yeah, they clearly see their version of Victoria Hand as a lesbian.

They thought it would be irresponsible to address it then kill her off in the same episode... They want to give their gay characters more weight and substance than that. ...now they have to just go ahead and create some, lol.

[dragonmp93]

As of 2013, doesn't seem like it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...irlfriend.html

But I want to be clear: Victoria Hand is a lesbian in the comics. There's no reason to think she wasn't one on the SHIELD TV show... they just never really delved into her personal life / love life before killing her off.

I still think she was one. There's a heavy Whedon influence on the show.

EDIT: interview with the creators of SHIELD:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/24/ag...son2-spoilers/



So yeah, they clearly see their version of Victoria Hand as a lesbian.

They thought it would be irresponsible to address it then kill her off in the same episode... They want to give their gay characters more weight and substance than that. ...now they have to just go ahead and create some, lol.

Well, they could explore Simmons' feelings for Mockingbird.

[Starleafgirl]

Well, they could explore Simmons' feelings for Mockingbird.

Or Fitz's for Henry? ^.^



Even though FitzSimmons is my OTP on that show...

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Okay, now this is interesting.

I made a post on Tumblr promoting the idea for Phyla Vell and Moondragon to be in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

One of the responses I got was this:

Okay but James Gunn apparently loves these two, at DragonCon he asked my Phyla and I for a picture with us (I was MoonDragon), and afterwards I was chatting with him and he said marvel does not want space lesbians. But he wants space lesbians. He is trying very hard to bring us space lesbians.

Source is here: http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/102...inuetchristina

And to prove she did talk with James Gunn (She does show a bit of skin, so nsfw warning): http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/963...gical-place-oh

So I think this is a rather interesting predicament. Gunn wants Phyla and Moondragon. Marvel doesn't. Maybe it's time to start a mailing campaign!

[Starleafgirl]

Okay, now this is interesting.

And to prove she did talk with James Gunn (She does show a bit of skin, so nsfw warning): http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/963...gical-place-oh

So I think this is a rather interesting predicament. Gunn wants Phyla and Moondragon. Marvel doesn't. Maybe it's time to start a mailing campaign!

Awesome pix of James Gunn with space lesbians!

I really hope Marvel reconsiders their stance on space lesbians.

I'd really like to see me some space lesbians.

...Yes, now I'm just making up excuses to say "space lesbians."

To make the case, I'd say start with Moondragon being Drax's daughter and really play up the family angle and how she turns into a dragon and how freakin' cool that would be to have as a visual in GotG (or any movie, frankly)... and then mention "she travels the galaxy with her girlfriend Phyla."

Honestly, sounds pretty reasonable as a story plot to me.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Awesome pix of James Gunn with space lesbians!

I really hope Marvel reconsiders their stance on space lesbians.

I'd really like to see me some space lesbians.

...Yes, now I'm just making up excuses to say "space lesbians."

To make the case, I'd say start with Moondragon being Drax's daughter and really play up the family angle and how she turns into a dragon and how freakin' cool that would be to have as a visual in GotG (or any movie, frankly)... and then mention "she travels the galaxy with her girlfriend Phyla."

Honestly, sounds pretty reasonable as a story plot to me.

The film is 3 years away. If we get the mail campaign going, they might reconsider.

[marvelguy25]

Okay, now this is interesting.

I made a post on Tumblr promoting the idea for Phyla Vell and Moondragon to be in Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

One of the responses I got was this:


Source is here: http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/102...inuetchristina

And to prove she did talk with James Gunn (She does show a bit of skin, so nsfw warning): http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/963...gical-place-oh

So I think this is a rather interesting predicament. Gunn wants Phyla and Moondragon. Marvel doesn't. Maybe it's time to start a mailing campaign!

the MCU is getting more dark and dramatic there is a way to bring some LGBT characters into the big and small screen

[Kieran_Frost]

Source is here: http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/102...inuetchristina

And to prove she did talk with James Gunn (She does show a bit of skin, so nsfw warning): http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/963...gical-place-oh

So I think this is a rather interesting predicament. Gunn wants Phyla and Moondragon. Marvel doesn't. Maybe it's time to start a mailing campaign!

Hmmmmm... I am of two minds. Would James Gunn so carelessly out Marvel as being against having LGBT characters to someone he doesn't know? BUT if this is true... it's very disappointing/offensive.

As of 2013, doesn't seem like it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...irlfriend.html

Shame.

But I want to be clear: Victoria Hand is a lesbian in the comics. There's no reason to think she wasn't one on the SHIELD TV show... they just never really delved into her personal life / love life before killing her off.
I still think she was one. There's a heavy Whedon influence on the show.

There is gallons of evidence to imply being something in the comics does not mean it is the same in the films/TV shows.

EDIT: interview with the creators of SHIELD:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/09/24/ag...son2-spoilers/

So yeah, they clearly see their version of Victoria Hand as a lesbian.

They thought it would be irresponsible to address it then kill her off in the same episode... They want to give their gay characters more weight and substance than that. ...now they have to just go ahead and create some, lol.

I'm sorry, but that is weak-sauce BS! (not your fault, I'm not shooting the messenger ) They can't have it both ways!!! They can't avoid the fallout of killing off the only two LGBT characters in the MCU by not confirming them as lesbians, but simultaneously try and pretend "we do have LGBT characters" by saying they saw them as lesbians. GOD! Jonathan Hickman's mentality is clearly catching at Marvel. Say you have LGBT characters, but never say you have LGBT characters. Problem solved. UGH!!! I'm just so angry at this level of ignorance/cowardice!!!

the MCU is getting more dark and dramatic there is a way to bring some LGBT characters into the big and small screen

And how disappointing that LGBT characters can only exist when things are "dark and dramatic"

[America / Bucky / Russia]

As of 2013, doesn't seem like it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...irlfriend.html

What's this about the Daily Mail *judges*

One of the responses I got was this:


Source is here: http://hanahmiya.tumblr.com/post/102...inuetchristina

Space lesbians are my favourite kind of lesbians. And I know quite a few lesbians.

[Kieran_Frost]

What's this about the Daily Mail *judges*

Oh hush, the Daily Mail is AWESOME!

Space lesbians are my favourite kind of lesbians. And I know quite a few lesbians.

HA! But you know... off the top of my head, I can't think of any space lesbians in cinema. Can you?

EDIT - and entering "space lesbians" into a search just left me confused and concerned

[America / Bucky / Russia]

I'm sorry, but that is weak-sauce BS! (not your fault, I'm not shooting the messenger ) They can't have it both ways!!! They can't avoid the fallout of killing off the only two LGBT characters in the MCU by not confirming them as lesbians, but simultaneously try and pretend "we do have LGBT characters" by saying they saw them as lesbians. GOD! Jonathan Hickman's mentality is clearly catching at Marvel. Say you have LGBT characters, but never say you have LGBT characters. Problem solved. UGH!!! I'm just so angry at this level of ignorance/cowardice!!!

"We don't want to kill two lesbians in one episode." Well, if it's a couple rather than two individual characters, then it creates a Romeo and Juliet-esque (an entirely overrated play that needs to be purged from the public consciousness, but anyway) tragedy of one lover dying, then the other. So that would actually be pretty logical.

Would it be too distracting to have some S.H.I.E.L.D. agents flirting in the background of one episode? That's a subtle way of doing it.

I can't really deal with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. though. I tried watching season 2 but it was so disinteresting.

[America / Bucky / Russia]

HA! But you know... off the top of my head, I can't think of any space lesbians in cinema. Can you?

I'd Google it, but not sure what the results would be and this is school network soooo.