LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Frontier]

I found it interesting that they got Crystal Frasier, a trans writer, on a Titania/She-Hulk story and what exactly was the context for this since they seem to be going with queer creators for queer characters. So I went to Twitter and found out that Crystal is writing a trans She-Hulk in this story, but she clarifies this is not the 616 Jen. So I'm guessing this is an AU Jen, or maybe a new character altogether who takes on the She-Hulk identity. Crystal also implied this story might not really be canon and she doesn't know if the other stories in this one-shot are... which is kinda disappointing. Not the best way to promote your queer content by making it ''not really matter''. Stick to your guns, Marvel! If they didn't have the balls for a canon trans Jen, they could've at least outed another character, like, idk, Lyra's She-Hulk. Or made a new Red She-Hulk who's trans. At least something that could still be used in the future stories instead of being discarded the minute this one-shot ends.

I was wondering why She-Hulk was getting a story in this anthology. I think someone said she was really popular with the LGBTQ+ community so I thought that might have had something to do with it.

It's like every corner of the MU is being represented except FF. The team really is where diversity goes to die...

The situation with Jen is really weird. Wouldn't it better to create a trans hero instead of this half-hearted attempt at representation? If it isn't canon then why do it in this book that is meant to celebrate LGBT characters? Feels lazy and cowardly to me.

Unless you count Wiccan and Hulking there's no Guardians story rep (despite how queer Ewing's current Guardians roster is). It's 95% X-Men or Mutants.

I guess there might be more stories like a Phyla and Moondragon one?

Black Cat counts for Spider-Man, I assume.

[J. D. Guy]

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...-lgtbq-stories

Does Anole have any steady love interests?

'Cause I gotta say, I'm not necessarily here for Daken and Somnus in the modern day, but I already love the idea of Anole and Somnus with just this tease.

And sidenote, I love the idea of Bobby high-key crushing on and having romantic and sexual feelings for Angel. It legitimately feels believable and real that he would, especially given the context that they were both part of the OG X-Men team from day 1 since they were kids.

[J. D. Guy]

I get that. It's just frustrating and with the kids older now and likely wanting to date people, I don't see why they should be straight. I want Johnny to be revealed as bi, but know that's the slimmest of chances that happens. But Franklin and Valeria are practically blank slates and can easily be queer.

I'm still mad at the wasted opportunity to elevate Living Lightning after No Surrender. It was the perfect set-up for him to get a push and no longer be a character that's rarely seen.

Them finally letting Johnny be openly pan/bi is something that'd make all the sense. It's a shame they're beating around the bush scared, instead. Same for Nightwing over at DC.

I hadn't considered it, but Franklin and Valeria are pretty much blank slates in this regard, aren't they.

[Dermie]

Does Anole have any steady love interests?

No. He dated a human named Noam, but he only ever appeared in one issue. He once mentioned having a crush on Striker (from Avengers Academy), but that was never mentioned again.

'Cause I gotta say, I'm not necessarily here for Daken and Somnus in the modern day, but I already love the idea of Anole and Somnus with just this tease.

I'd be happy to see that. And yeah, I don't see Daken and Somnus getting together again right now--he's currently trying to pursue something with Aurora.

Them finally letting Johnny be openly pan/bi is something that'd make all the sense. It's a shame they're beating around the bush scared, instead. Same for Nightwing over at DC.

I hadn't considered it, but Franklin and Valeria are pretty much blank slates in this regard, aren't they.

Sort of. We know that at least one future version of Franklin grows up to be the boyfriend of Rachel Summers. And Valeria has actually had one or two boyfriends already. But that doesn't rule out either of them being bi, and both of them are still young and figuring themselves out so there's definitely plenty of room to out either or both of them at this point.

[Drops Of Venus]

The situation with Jen is really weird. Wouldn't it better to create a trans hero instead of this half-hearted attempt at representation? If it isn't canon then why do it in this book that is meant to celebrate LGBT characters? Feels lazy and cowardly to me.

I won't be too harsh on the writer 'cause the story seems to be a personal wish fulfillment for her and that's fair, but yeah, it's frustrating that they are ''wasting'' a trans rep spot on something that might not matter on the long run. This was a perfect opportunity to introduce a new trans character or out an established 616 character as trans.

Yeah I've always found the refusal to make Franklin or Valeria queer to be so frustrating. It's such an easy way to add permanent diversity to the FF. (Also think Ahura in the Inhumans was a good choice for that)

I wouldn't say it's a refusal, and more like... something that just hasn't come up yet? They've been children for the vast majority of their existence, and only recently they've been aged up to an appropriate dating age, so it could be done anytime now.

[Crimz]

I won't be too harsh on the writer 'cause the story seems to be a personal wish fulfillment for her and that's fair, but yeah, it's frustrating that they are ''wasting'' a trans rep spot on something that might not matter on the long run. This was a perfect opportunity to introduce a new trans character or out an established 616 character as trans.



I wouldn't say it's a refusal, and more like... something that just hasn't come up yet? They've been children for the vast majority of their existence, and only recently they've been aged up to an appropriate dating age, so it could be done anytime now.

I don't blame the writer at all and I can understand wanting to write a certain story with a certain character and jumping at the chance to do it. I just think Marcel could have done it better. It especially feels weird with the lack of trans heroes in Marvel.

Valeria's story arc is literally about boys this run, that doesn't rule out her possibly being bi/pan but I won't hold my breath. Frank is more of a blank slate in the relationship department. He has shown no interest in anyone since his aging up. So there is still a chance with him and could even see him be Asexual as that's another underrepresented group. I don't count the future with Rachel as that is an alt Franklin.

[Confuzzled]

I love the idea of Franklin settling down with a Summers offspring even if it's not Rachel. When are Scott/Jean going to be pregnant though? At this point, the age gap between Franklin and any child they will have in the main universe will be real weird.

But then again, Reed/Sue are precedence...

[Kingdom X]

A) Marvel can go ahead and confirm that future Franklin and Rachel were each other’s beards.

B) Just read Orlando’s X-Men tie-in to Heroes Reborn and he leaned HEAVILY into the Magneto/ Xavier relationship. I know people have been making jokes about them being lovers for forever, but how would you guys actually feel about them being a canon couple or at least having confirmed feelings for each other?

[Confuzzled]

Bobby's crush on Warren is already canon actually! It's one of the first things O5 Bobby asks adult Bobby about haha. And it comes up in Iceman's solo run too! Bobby clearly has a thing for blonds...

Lol even before that, when O5 Bobby asks nosy O5 Jean if Warren is gay or bi right after she outs him!

There was also a black and white backup story in the 80's about Bobby "appreciating" Warren's beauty that was reprinted in the Uncanny X-Men book where O5 Bobby confronts Adult Bobby about his sexuality.

[J. D. Guy]

No. He dated a human named Noam, but he only ever appeared in one issue. He once mentioned having a crush on Striker (from Avengers Academy), but that was never mentioned again.



I'd be happy to see that. And yeah, I don't see Daken and Somnus getting together again right now--he's currently trying to pursue something with Aurora.



Sort of. We know that at least one future version of Franklin grows up to be the boyfriend of Rachel Summers. And Valeria has actually had one or two boyfriends already. But that doesn't rule out either of them being bi, and both of them are still young and figuring themselves out so there's definitely plenty of room to out either or both of them at this point.

For the first part, I'm not surprised. Saddened to learn, but not surprised. There's seems to be a tendency sometimes where they'll do that. For ever Teddy and Billy, there'll be a Jean-Paul and Kyle (couples who are together in every way but in practice). That'll or it'll be like Iceman and Anole where they're not shown keeping anyone narratively ongoing or consistent, with the air that writers don't really care. Anole being something of an icon for being this openly queer younger mutant doesn't serve his character well when he's stuck never really exploring it or sticking with something visibly long-term.

For the second part, I really do hope that'll be more than just a tease of using the openly queer mutant icon pining for Somnus as shorthand. I'd really like to see a longform or consistent story exploring the two together.

For the third part, while I'm not as generally caught up with my Fantastic Four, I still see Franklin and Valeria as functionally being blank slates in this regard. I don't especially think that the heteronormatively applied habits of a couple of past writers should be used to dictate things like exploring their identities outside of the strict heteronormative sphere. Valeria could very much be bi, and Franklin having a female love interest in one hypothetical future wouldn't be the roadblock stopping him from coming out as gay in current continuity. I also like the idea that seeing his nephew and niece be openly Bi/Gay would inspire Johnny to come out openly as pansexual and panromantic himself. In Johnny's case, we already have the ground work for him being pan; we just need it to be acknowledged going forward.

[Will Evans]

For the first part, I'm not surprised. Saddened to learn, but not surprised. There's seems to be a tendency sometimes where they'll do that. For ever Teddy and Billy, there'll be a Jean-Paul and Kyle (couples who are together in every way but in practice). That'll or it'll be like Iceman and Anole where they're not shown keeping anyone narratively ongoing or consistent, with the air that writers don't really care. Anole being something of an icon for being this openly queer younger mutant doesn't serve his character well when he's stuck never really exploring it or sticking with something visibly long-term.

For the second part, I really do hope that'll be more than just a tease of using the openly queer mutant icon pining for Somnus as shorthand. I'd really like to see a longform or consistent story exploring the two together.

For the third part, while I'm not as generally caught up with my Fantastic Four, I still see Franklin and Valeria as functionally being blank slates in this regard. I don't especially think that the heteronormatively applied habits of a couple of past writers should be used to dictate things like exploring their identities outside of the strict heteronormative sphere. Valeria could very much be bi, and Franklin having a female love interest in one hypothetical future wouldn't be the roadblock stopping him from coming out as gay in current continuity. I also like the idea that seeing his nephew and niece be openly Bi/Gay would inspire Johnny to come out openly as pansexual and panromantic himself. In Johnny's case, we already have the ground work for him being pan; we just need it to be acknowledged going forward.

Like I said earlier. Valeria seemed to be more than friends with Viv Vision, in the latest Marvel Zombies series.

[J. D. Guy]

Like I said earlier. Valeria seemed to be more than friends with Viv Vision, in the latest Marvel Zombies series.

Just gotta find a way to bring that into the main continuity somehow.

[Confuzzled]

For the first part, I'm not surprised. Saddened to learn, but not surprised. There's seems to be a tendency sometimes where they'll do that. For ever Teddy and Billy, there'll be a Jean-Paul and Kyle (couples who are together in every way but in practice). That'll or it'll be like Iceman and Anole where they're not shown keeping anyone narratively ongoing or consistent, with the air that writers don't really care.

It's for that reason why I liked Sina Grace try to set up a Batman/Catwoman type dynamic with Bobby and Daken both in his Iceman mini and its Winter's End follow-up. That kind of relationship hasn't been established for LGBT characters in comics or in pop-culture (well there was Adora and Catra in the She-Ra Netflix series, but their queerness wasn't confirmed until the final episode so the dynamic previously wasn't as satisfying without a confirmation of their sexualities as there was always the concern present that it was just queer baiting). It was far more enjoyable with Iceman and Daken as both were out and openly flirted with each other during their face-offs.

[J. D. Guy]

It's for that reason why I liked Sina Grace try to set up a Batman/Catwoman type dynamic with Bobby and Daken both in his Iceman mini and its Winter's End follow-up. That kind of relationship hasn't been established for LGBT characters in comics or in pop-culture (well there was Adora and Catra in the She-Ra Netflix series, but their queerness wasn't confirmed until the final episode so the dynamic previously wasn't as satisfying without a confirmation of their sexualities as there was always the concern present that it was just queer baiting). It was far more enjoyable with Iceman and Daken as both were out and openly flirted with each other during their face-offs.

Never considerd it that way. (Sereno, Luciano Vecchio's creator-owned comic work, actually has this, now that I think about it.)

While I'm iffy on Daken and Iceman, it is something. And I know a lot of folks are disdainful of Simon Lasker's Pyro, but I like the idea and want before Simon and the idea of Simon and Bobby in a relationship (in whatever form) to be explored.

[Fokken]

For the record, according to Orlando, Somnus and Daken HAD a thing, back in the 60's(?) but its ended, so they won't necessarily be rekindling upon Somnus's return. Besides, Akihiro is currently involved with Jean Marie Beaubier.