LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Eh, it seems to me like she said what she had to when she was writing the book because she wasn't allowed to say she was writing him as gay at the time, and then once she wasn't working at Marvel anymore she said the truth.

That's certainly one way to interpret it.

Or...she jumped on the "Bobby's gay" train and said, "Oh yeah, I totally wrote him like that!"

I can't ascertain for myself and, for anyone else, they're free to take it how they wish. All I'm saying is, humans are fallible.

[Wiccan]

That's certainly one way to interpret it.

Or...she jumped on the "Bobby's gay" train and said, "Oh yeah, I totally wrote him like that!"

I can't ascertain for myself and, for anyone else, they're free to take it how they wish. All I'm saying is, humans are fallible.

Err, you not believing her isn't the same as her "giving conflicting interviews".

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Err, you not believing her isn't the same as her "giving conflicting interviews".

Which interview are we to believe? Either case, she either "lied" in the first interview due to pressure, or she "lied" in the second interview to hop on the bandwagon.

I actually have a neutral standpoint, and don't put too much stock into either interview. But you missed that note.

[Wiccan]

Which interview are we to believe? Either case, she either "lied" in the first interview due to pressure, or she "lied" in the second interview to hop on the bandwagon.

I actually have a neutral standpoint, and don't put too much stock into either interview. But you missed that note.

You didn't explain which are the interviews and how they contradict each other. I only know that after they made it canon she said it was how she wrote him. Did she have an interview where she said "I didn't write Bobby as gay"?

[Dermie]

It seemed pretty clear to me when I was reading Liu's ASTONISHING X-MEN run that she was writing Bobby as gay. Towards the end of the arc where Bobby was being corrupted by the Apocalypse Seed, I was half expecting that to be the story where Bobby came out of the closet because the subtext becoming so thick it was bordering on just being 'text'.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

You didn't explain which are the interviews and how they contradict each other. I only know that after they made it canon she said it was how she wrote him. Did she have an interview where she said "I didn't write Bobby as gay"?

https://uproxx.com/hitfix/x-position...nishing-x-men/

3) I’m not sure if you’re aware but there is a very vocal group that’s convinced that Iceman is in the closet. Given you’re writing a story about his relationships with women in a very gay-friendly book what’s your take on the theory?

Listen, it’s fun to look for undercurrents and create alternate relationships for our favorite characters! Just think about Kirk and Spock, or “Supernatural’s” Dean and Castiel — heck, “Hawaii 5-0’s” “bromance/romance” between Steve and Danno is part of their actual advertising! Personally, I love to play with sexuality in my work, and tease relationships, possibilities and so on. But do I think Bobby is gay? Who knows? In some ways — maybe in every way — that’s up to the reader to decide. What I will say, though, is that Bobby has always been written as a straight man, and what I love about him as a straight man is that he’s like the “everyman”: the guy who has daddy issues (and other problems), and who has got no game, whatsoever, when it comes to picking up girls. The dude who is always the “really good friend” but never the “boyfriend.” For me, that’s what Bobby represents. But if he ends up coming out of the closet, that’s cool, too.

[Crimz]

Marjorie Liu also had conflicting interviews on how she handled writing Bobby Drake, so...I'm not too keen to take interviews at face value.

The Johnny comment isn't conflicting with anything though. She straight up said her intent.

[GraysonXIV]

https://uproxx.com/hitfix/x-position...nishing-x-men/

3) I’m not sure if you’re aware but there is a very vocal group that’s convinced that Iceman is in the closet. Given you’re writing a story about his relationships with women in a very gay-friendly book what’s your take on the theory?

Listen, it’s fun to look for undercurrents and create alternate relationships for our favorite characters! Just think about Kirk and Spock, or “Supernatural’s” Dean and Castiel — heck, “Hawaii 5-0’s” “bromance/romance” between Steve and Danno is part of their actual advertising! Personally, I love to play with sexuality in my work, and tease relationships, possibilities and so on. But do I think Bobby is gay? Who knows? In some ways — maybe in every way — that’s up to the reader to decide. What I will say, though, is that Bobby has always been written as a straight man, and what I love about him as a straight man is that he’s like the “everyman”: the guy who has daddy issues (and other problems), and who has got no game, whatsoever, when it comes to picking up girls. The dude who is always the “really good friend” but never the “boyfriend.” For me, that’s what Bobby represents. But if he ends up coming out of the closet, that’s cool, too.

This doesn’t conflict though. She alludes to her thinking Bobby’s gay and then clarifies Marvel, at that point, had always written him as straight. And then she talks about what he means as a character if he’s straight. Your interpretation is a reach.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

This doesn’t conflict though. She alludes to her thinking Bobby’s gay and then clarifies Marvel, at that point, had always written him as straight. And then she talks about what he means as a character if he’s straight. Your interpretation is a reach.

She didn’t use the word “if” in regard to his possible straightness. She did say “if” in regard to him possibly being gay. And that’s that. She admitted it was possible for a future writer to write him that way. Which, I think, is responsible for a writer to say.

[Dermie]

The Week In Gay:

Immortal X-Men #1 - Kieron Gillen's new series focusing on the Quiet Council (including Destiny, Mystique and Kate Pryde) begins.

Silk #3 - Silk's friend Rafferty makes an appearance

X-Cellent #2 - Vivisector and Doop appear with the rest of X-Statix

If I missed anything, please let me know.

[Confuzzled]

She didn’t use the word “if” in regard to his possible straightness.

In a way she did though. She pointed out that Marvel hadn't explicitly written him as anything other than straight up until that point in time, so if she had to write a story about him that didn't contradict the stories that came before (which, let's face it, was the only option Marvel would have given her as she didn't have Bendis's clout to out him), then her story elements would still make sense with Bobby's canon history.

And that's exactly how the Frozen arc reads. On face value, it's about a guy with zero luck in his previous hetero relationships, but there is a valid reading of connecting his "bad luck" with women to the fact that he's closeted and hasn't fully come to terms with the fact.

I see no lies. Marjorie had no choice while writing the story but to skirt around the subject of Bobby's queerness while not contradicting the possibility of it, which she did pretty masterfully. Her focusing specifically on Bobby being terrible in relationships with women gave Bendis the opening that he needed to reveal why Adult Bobby was closeted despite having been with women in his past.

[Krakoa]

She didn’t use the word “if” in regard to his possible straightness. She did say “if” in regard to him possibly being gay. And that’s that. She admitted it was possible for a future writer to write him that way. Which, I think, is responsible for a writer to say.

You say you have a neutral standpoint but it doesn't seem very neutral to me.

As I said above, it feels to me that her interview from the time is saying what she can say at the time and acknowledging that there is an interpretation of the story that works if no one ever outs him.

The subtext in the arc is so thick. Like, if it's just about always being the friend and never the boyfriend, why is there all this stuff about Bobby's dad and acceptance from him as a huge theme? Why is he going hard at his exes who are clearly interested (in Opal's case) and still not feeling satisfied? What really seals it for me is Liu's choice to have Mystique as the one ex that really understands what is happening with Bobby -- because she is also LGBT.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

In a way she did though. She pointed out that Marvel hadn't explicitly written him as anything other than straight up until that point in time, so if she had to write a story about him that didn't contradict the stories that came before (which, let's face it, was the only option Marvel would have given her as she didn't have Bendis's clout to out him), then her story elements would still make sense with Bobby's canon history.

And that's exactly how the Frozen arc reads. On face value, it's about a guy with zero luck in his previous hetero relationships, but there is a valid reading of connecting his "bad luck" with women to the fact that he's closeted and hasn't fully come to terms with the fact.

I see no lies. Marjorie had no choice while writing the story but to skirt around the subject of Bobby's queerness while not contradicting the possibility of it, which she did pretty masterfully. Her focusing specifically on Bobby being terrible in relationships with women gave Bendis the opening that he needed to reveal why Adult Bobby was closeted despite having been with women in his past.

It's fine to be happy with the way things played out because, yay, gay representation. I'm happy about it myself, with the exclusion of allowing Bendis to handle the story behind it (not a fan of his writing). But if Bendis hadn't made Iceman come out as gay, Liu's interview I quoted would read that she viewed him as a straight man (with the qualities that she loved about that, to boot) with no follow-up interview stating otherwise. For whatever reason it was (pressure from Marvel, not being able to write the story that she wanted to tell, etc.), we have to accept that she gave answers to questions that didn't represent her feelings. "Lie" may be harsh, and in this case, I can't say that I "blame" her (as sometimes in these interviews a writer may be put into a tough spot), but...knowing that a writer's "opinion/stance/viewpoint/whathaveyou" may change from one interview to the next, and not knowing the full context with which the answers are given (was the writer only "allowed" to say that, or is that how they feel?)

Which that last bit is really all my original point was anyway.

It would be enlightening to know if Liu had proposed the idea of making Bobby gay while she was writing Astonishing.

You say you have a neutral standpoint but it doesn't seem very neutral to me.

As I said above, it feels to me that her interview from the time is saying what she can say at the time and acknowledging that there is an interpretation of the story that works if no one ever outs him.

The subtext in the arc is so thick. Like, if it's just about always being the friend and never the boyfriend, why is there all this stuff about Bobby's dad and acceptance from him as a huge theme? Why is he going hard at his exes who are clearly interested (in Opal's case) and still not feeling satisfied? What really seals it for me is Liu's choice to have Mystique as the one ex that really understands what is happening with Bobby -- because she is also LGBT.

I didn't know only gay guys could have "daddy issues." And ew...stereotypical much?

[Wiccan]

Jeez, we're still going about that... Anyway, the way I see it, she basically said "if he's canonically straight and you view him through that lens, then [explanation about about what the way he's been written means if you go with the interpretation/previous canon that Bobby is straight]", or he could be gay too in which case you would view his arc differently".

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Jeez, we're still going about that... Anyway, the way I see it, she basically said "if he's canonically straight and you view him through that lens, then [explanation about about what the way he's been written means if you go with the interpretation/previous canon that Bobby is straight]", or he could be gay too in which case you would view his arc differently".

The most horrible thing about it all is that Bendis wound up getting to write the coming out story, at the tail-end of his run. I'm biased against him as a writer, though, after his utter ruination of Wanda and a lack-luster run on the X-Men mythos that I attempted to give him a second-chance with.

Liu's arc had so much for Bendis to reference to and...nada. Some stuff Lobdell did would have been nice, too. It's like Bendis didn't want to give any partial credit to anyone else.