LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Will Evans]

The Week In Gay:

Eternals #11 - building up towards this summer's Eternals/Avengers/X-Men crossover event.

X-Men '92: House Of XCII #1 - miniseries bringing the age of Krakoa to the world of the 90s X-Men cartoon. There are a few characters in this one who are LGBT in the 616 comics.

X-Men #10 - Destiny is in this issue.

As ever, if I missed anything please let me know.

Have any comics Eternals been confirmed yet? Asides from the sex changes, I mean.

[Dermie]

Have any comics Eternals been confirmed yet? Asides from the sex changes, I mean.

Eros/Starfox was at least implied to be bi or pan a few years ago -- but he is not part of the cast of this volume.

None of the current cast have been confirmed to be bi or pan as of yet. Makkari did have relationships with women when she was still in male form though--so now that Makkari is female, she would at least be a lesbian unless her sexuality and emotions changed along with her gender--but I don't think that's how this is supposed to work. She is supposed to be the same person, just in a new appearance...although I can't say I really recognize Makkari's personality as the same character, so who knows.

[Drops Of Venus]

I find the whole Makkari thing to be messy as hell. I wish they would just say this is a new Eternal who decided to name herself after the original Makkari. They could've made a good genderqueer story out of this, but it doesn't feel like representation is the intention behind it, just synergy, so it doesn't come off as genuine queer rep. Gillen DID give us trans representation with Sera, so he knows how to do it. This just feels like editorial mandate, which is unfortunate.

Also... I feel like it's super weird that a white dude decided he wanted to look like a black woman specifically. Gender transition is one thing... but the race aspect is very distasteful and it reminds me of the whole Psylocke situation. Marvel was smart enough to reverse that, so it's mind boggling that no one thought it would be weird to just to do the same thing with another character.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Nobody’s ever going to “get it right,” and I think some level of acceptance needs to be met. We all have our own opinions on how something should be handled, and even within the same subculture, demographic, marginalized group, etc there’s going to be difference of opinion.

There is an importance that needs to be placed on hiring a diversity of talent. However, even when Marvel hired a trans writer (Vissagio), for example, criticism was given on how the Inhuman/Mutant dynamic was handled.

No product made is going to be universally approved by everyone.

Thought it is clear when something is done “completely wrong” and the majority opinion is as much (or appears to be. It must be noted that people tend to speak out more often when they’re unhappy with something).

To clarify: I’m not advocating to admit defeat and “this is just how it will be.” I’m not saying don’t fight for something better. I’m supporting being happy for the small victories that “we” obtain. The good work won’t ever be completed, but it will advance.

[Wiccan]

I find the whole Makkari thing to be messy as hell. I wish they would just say this is a new Eternal who decided to name herself after the original Makkari. They could've made a good genderqueer story out of this, but it doesn't feel like representation is the intention behind it, just synergy, so it doesn't come off as genuine queer rep. Gillen DID give us trans representation with Sera, so he knows how to do it. This just feels like editorial mandate, which is unfortunate.

Also... I feel like it's super weird that a white dude decided he wanted to look like a black woman specifically. Gender transition is one thing... but the race aspect is very distasteful and it reminds me of the whole Psylocke situation. Marvel was smart enough to reverse that, so it's mind boggling that no one thought it would be weird to just to do the same thing with another character.

Huh, do the eternals really choose their new bodies(sex, race, etc)? I thought it just randomly happened.

[Frontier]

Huh, do the eternals really choose their new bodies(sex, race, etc)? I thought it just randomly happened.

Sprite gender-flipped and nobody really commented much on it, so I think it is kind of randomized.

[Dermie]

Huh, do the eternals really choose their new bodies(sex, race, etc)? I thought it just randomly happened.

Its not entirely clear. Ikarus' comments in issue #1 indicates that that some Eternals choose to change their appearance "every 20 or 25,000 years or so". He doesn't specify whether or not they choose the specific details of their new bodies in terms of gender, race, etc.

I find the whole Makkari thing to be messy as hell. I wish they would just say this is a new Eternal who decided to name herself after the original Makkari. They could've made a good genderqueer story out of this, but it doesn't feel like representation is the intention behind it, just synergy, so it doesn't come off as genuine queer rep. Gillen DID give us trans representation with Sera, so he knows how to do it. This just feels like editorial mandate, which is unfortunate.

Synergy is absolutely the root cause here, given which three specific Eternals got gender flipped and that the changes were specifically to make them more like the MCU versions. That doesn't mean that positive representation can't end up coming out of it...but we haven't really seen that yet. Personally, I am more bothered by the fact that Makkari's personality in no way resembles the character who has been appearing in the past few decades of stories. Ikarus, Sprite, Thena, Sersi....they are all still clearly themselves. But Makkari is an entirely new character running around using the same name, and literally the only thing they have in common is super-speed.

To be honest, I thought the casting of Makkari in the MCU was ill-conceived...not for the gender or race issue, but for the deafness. I think its great that they wanted to add that representation for the MCU--but I think ETERNALS was entirely the wrong project to do it in, since the concept is that the Eternals are these artificially created immortal beings. Why would they create a "flawed" immortal warrior with a hearing disability? It simply doesn't make sense in the context of who and what the Eternals are.

Also... I feel like it's super weird that a white dude decided he wanted to look like a black woman specifically. Gender transition is one thing... but the race aspect is very distasteful and it reminds me of the whole Psylocke situation. Marvel was smart enough to reverse that, so it's mind boggling that no one thought it would be weird to just to do the same thing with another character.

I get where you're coming from with that, but I think the fact that the Eternals aren't human gives them a bit more of a 'pass' when it comes to that. And I think one of the one-shots showed that Makkari was also a woman-of colour millions of years ago, prior to bring a white male (I know it showed Ajak was female back then), so arguably Makkari was a black woman who chose to become a white man at some point--and has now chosen to switch back.

[Dermie]

A pretty lacklustre week. There isn't much to get excited about these days. Hopefully June turns that around.

Part of that is the ongoing delays, with the paper shortages and everything else -- there are plenty of books that are overdue. Several weeks this month are lackluster from Marvel--not just in terms of LGBT content, but in terms of new content coming out at all.

As you said, hopefully we'll see some improvement on that score soon--both with new projects launching, and existing projects finally getting back on schedule.

[Drops Of Venus]

Nobody’s ever going to “get it right,” and I think some level of acceptance needs to be met. We all have our own opinions on how something should be handled, and even within the same subculture, demographic, marginalized group, etc there’s going to be difference of opinion.

There is an importance that needs to be placed on hiring a diversity of talent. However, even when Marvel hired a trans writer (Vissagio), for example, criticism was given on how the Inhuman/Mutant dynamic was handled.

No product made is going to be universally approved by everyone.

Thought it is clear when something is done “completely wrong” and the majority opinion is as much (or appears to be. It must be noted that people tend to speak out more often when they’re unhappy with something).

To clarify: I’m not advocating to admit defeat and “this is just how it will be.” I’m not saying don’t fight for something better. I’m supporting being happy for the small victories that “we” obtain. The good work won’t ever be completed, but it will advance.

Ok, but my point here is that I don't even know if we can count this as a small victory at all, because we're not even sure if that counts as queer representation yet. It honestly feels like a soft reboot of some characters rather than a conscious choice to make them queer.

Huh, do the eternals really choose their new bodies(sex, race, etc)? I thought it just randomly happened.

I think there has to be some level of choice about it, because if it was just random every time they ressurrected, a lot of them would be looking different today. But it only happened with a few of them; the ones who conveniently got changed in the MCU as well. I think it would be even messier trying to explain why it only happens to some, so it makes more sense if it was their choice.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Ok, but my point here is that I don't even know if we can count this as a small victory at all, because we're not even sure if that counts as queer representation yet. It honestly feels like a soft reboot of some characters rather than a conscious choice to make them queer.

It may not be “queer” representation or a “queer” victory, but it is representation. Isn’t the comics Makkari also deaf and speech impaired?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Synergy is absolutely the root cause here, given which three specific Eternals got gender flipped and that the changes were specifically to make them more like the MCU versions. That doesn't mean that positive representation can't end up coming out of it...but we haven't really seen that yet. Personally, I am more bothered by the fact that Makkari's personality in no way resembles the character who has been appearing in the past few decades of stories. Ikarus, Sprite, Thena, Sersi....they are all still clearly themselves. But Makkari is an entirely new character running around using the same name, and literally the only thing they have in common is super-speed.

To be honest, I thought the casting of Makkari in the MCU was ill-conceived...not for the gender or race issue, but for the deafness. I think its great that they wanted to add that representation for the MCU--but I think ETERNALS was entirely the wrong project to do it in, since the concept is that the Eternals are these artificially created immortal beings. Why would they create a "flawed" immortal warrior with a hearing disability? It simply doesn't make sense in the context of who and what the Eternals are.

Technically speaking, was the movie Makkari really even deaf?

They established that her sense of touch was sensitive to detect the vibrations of airwaves around her, even if they were whispers. Functionally speaking, her entire body would have served as her ears.

[Frontier]

Technically speaking, was the movie Makkari really even deaf?

They established that her sense of touch was sensitive to detect the vibrations of airwaves around her, even if they were whispers. Functionally speaking, her entire body would have served as her ears.

Maybe Arishem constructed her that way because it made the rest of her body more sensitive and alert and let her run faster? Like she doesn't have to worry about her ears when she keeps breaking the sound barrier?

They never really explained why Sprite is an eternally ageless child though.

[Confuzzled]

It really doesn't seem like asking much to get a gay Peter Parker in the Spider-verse.

Meanwhile we’ve had two or three queer Mary Jane Watsons. Just pointing that out.

AU gay Peter Parker dating male MJ Watson needed to happen back when Andrew Garfield said he wanted Michael B. Jordan to play his MJ!

[Spiderfan001]

I find the whole Makkari thing to be messy as hell. I wish they would just say this is a new Eternal who decided to name herself after the original Makkari. They could've made a good genderqueer story out of this, but it doesn't feel like representation is the intention behind it, just synergy, so it doesn't come off as genuine queer rep. Gillen DID give us trans representation with Sera, so he knows how to do it. This just feels like editorial mandate, which is unfortunate.

Also... I feel like it's super weird that a white dude decided he wanted to look like a black woman specifically. Gender transition is one thing... but the race aspect is very distasteful and it reminds me of the whole Psylocke situation. Marvel was smart enough to reverse that, so it's mind boggling that no one thought it would be weird to just to do the same thing with another character.

It's def. synergy, but that doesn't mean it isn't also Rep.

Also they aren't humans, but eternals.Which should be considered when you think of what's distasteful or not or to what extent

[Krakoa]

I find the whole Makkari thing to be messy as hell. I wish they would just say this is a new Eternal who decided to name herself after the original Makkari. They could've made a good genderqueer story out of this, but it doesn't feel like representation is the intention behind it, just synergy, so it doesn't come off as genuine queer rep. Gillen DID give us trans representation with Sera, so he knows how to do it. This just feels like editorial mandate, which is unfortunate.

Also... I feel like it's super weird that a white dude decided he wanted to look like a black woman specifically. Gender transition is one thing... but the race aspect is very distasteful and it reminds me of the whole Psylocke situation. Marvel was smart enough to reverse that, so it's mind boggling that no one thought it would be weird to just to do the same thing with another character.

That wouldn't really work with the lore of the book, since there are no new Eternals and there are just the 100 that exist. And the book is pretty heavily leaning into Makkari's role from the Gaiman run.