LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[PyroTwilight]

(And really, making a guy whose name is Dick Ryder gay? Don't go there, Marvel!)

What are we forgetting D-Man is Gay? I feel like that’s on par joke wise.

[Dermie]

I think there was some insinuations that he was romantically attracted to or in love with Peter Quill and Al Ewing was teasing a throuple between him, Peter, and Gamora that never materialized.

I didn't see it as a thing myself.

Yes, it was implied in Ewing's GOTG run that Rich might have more-than-friends feelings towards Peter Quill, most notably in a scene in issue #6 where Nova tells Gamora "I loved him too." Although one could assume that he simply meant platonic love, the way the scene was presented on the page suggested something more. The panel where Richard says it is an extra large panel that takes up more than half the page--with it being a close-up of Rich's face as he makes this emotional reveal. That strongly hints the panel was intended to be a more weighty "reveal" than just "I loved him like a brother" or something, since that was already long-established for years. A statement like that would not warrant a panel like that.

After Star-Lord himself was outed as bi later in the run it was suggested that a Star-Lord/Gamora/Nova throuple might happen--but the series ended before it could get developed any further and before Ewing could explicitly out Rich one way or the other. But since he has brought Nova over with him to the cast of X-MEN RED, we may potentially get confirmation one way or the other.

Rich hot-tubbing with Sunspot and his gay Arakki friend also felt like the writer being a little too cute there.

That scene hasn't actually happened yet -- it was a preview page for an issue that has yet to be released. Whether or not the scene provides us with any more queer subtext (or overt text, for that matter) remains to be seen -- but given the number of non-romantic/sexual hot tub scenes to happen during the Krakoa era (including one with the entire Marauders team soaking together) I'm not sure that really is a "too cute" situation.

(And he's certainly been dropping anvils that Roberto might fancy Sam in more than friendly way.)

Has Ewing dropped that many? I know various X-writers in the Krakoa era have teased a bit about Sunspot maybe being bi, but I can't recall anything from Ewing specifically at the moment. Off the top of my head I can only think of ones that Tini Howard did.

Don't really feel it either. Rich was always aggressively, even obnoxiously, hetero, back in the New Warriors days, hitting on Namorita pretty much 24/7. It certainly never felt like overcompensation or anything, like it sometimes did with Bobby Drake.

I highly doubt that they are intending to out Rich as gay -- I think they are planning to out him as bi. Him being bisexual really doesn't contradict anything with how he was in the early New Warriors days.

(And really, making a guy whose name is Dick Ryder gay? Don't go there, Marvel!)

lol. I've always found that amusing too -- especially when you factor in that the first guy he seemingly fell in love with is named "Peter", which is another name sometimes used as a penis euphemism.

[alanyoung909]

Yes, it was implied in Ewing's GOTG run that Rich might have more-than-friends feelings towards Peter Quill, most notably in a scene in issue #6 where Nova tells Gamora "I loved him too." Although one could assume that he simply meant platonic love, the way the scene was presented on the page suggested something more. The panel where Richard says it is an extra large panel that takes up more than half the page--with it being a close-up of Rich's face as he makes this emotional reveal. That strongly hints the panel was intended to be a more weighty "reveal" than just "I loved him like a brother" or something, since that was already long-established for years. A statement like that would not warrant a panel like that.

After Star-Lord himself was outed as bi later in the run it was suggested that a Star-Lord/Gamora/Nova throuple might happen--but the series ended before it could get developed any further and before Ewing could explicitly out Rich one way or the other. But since he has brought Nova over with him to the cast of X-MEN RED, we may potentially get confirmation one way or the other.

There's no way Ewing meant that scene to be platonic.

The Star-Lord / Aradia / Mors throuple in Morinus not only revealed Star-Lord as bisexual and open to polyamory, but it was foreshadowing the Star-Lord / Gamora / Nova throuple to come.
In fact, that entire run was about the burgeoning romantic relationship between the three of them.
The series begins with Star-Lord's 'death'. Richard and Gamora mourn his death in different ways, splitting up the Guardians between them.
In GOTG 6, Nova admits out loud to Gamora that he loved Peter.

When Peter returns from Morinus, both cosmically and personally awakened, the two GOTG teams reconcile.
Star-Lord, Gamora and Nova transform GOTG into an official superhero team with the three of them as leaders.

All of this culminates in GOTG 18, where Star-Lord admits to Gamora that he loves Nova too and she says "I know. That makes it better."
The run ends with the three of them hugging each other while Peter says "It'll last as long as it does. Let's enjoy the break while we have it".
This scene is framed by them surrounded by other couples (Wiccan+Hulkling, Hercules+Nova, Moondragon+Phyla-Vell) kissing each other.
It's obvious that they were in a polyamourous romantic relationship at that point.

I also get the feeling that Ewing was inspired by the Cyclops / Jean Grey / Wolverine throuple from X-Men when he wrote this one.

[Frontier]

There's no way Ewing meant that scene to be platonic.

The Star-Lord / Aradia / Mors throuple in Morinus not only revealed Star-Lord as bisexual and open to polyamory, but it was foreshadowing the Star-Lord / Gamora / Nova throuple to come.
In fact, that entire run was about the burgeoning romantic relationship between the three of them.
The series begins with Star-Lord's 'death'. Richard and Gamora mourn his death in different ways, splitting up the Guardians between them.
In GOTG 6, Nova admits out loud to Gamora that he loved Peter.

When Peter returns from Morinus, both cosmically and personally awakened, the two GOTG teams reconcile.
Star-Lord, Gamora and Nova transform GOTG into an official superhero team with the three of them as leaders.

All of this culminates in GOTG 18, where Star-Lord admits to Gamora that he loves Nova too and she says "I know. That makes it better."
The run ends with the three of them hugging each other while Peter says "It'll last as long as it does. Let's enjoy the break while we have it".
This scene is framed by them surrounded by other couples (Wiccan+Hulkling, Hercules+Nova, Moondragon+Phyla-Vell) kissing each other.
It's obvious that they were in a polyamourous romantic relationship at that point.

I also get the feeling that Ewing was inspired by the Cyclops / Jean Grey / Wolverine throuple from X-Men when he wrote this one.

Not that they did much more with that either (and both will probably never be confirmed officially on-panel).

[Quill-Han-Vos]

There's no way Ewing meant that scene to be platonic.

The Star-Lord / Aradia / Mors throuple in Morinus not only revealed Star-Lord as bisexual and open to polyamory, but it was foreshadowing the Star-Lord / Gamora / Nova throuple to come.
In fact, that entire run was about the burgeoning romantic relationship between the three of them.
The series begins with Star-Lord's 'death'. Richard and Gamora mourn his death in different ways, splitting up the Guardians between them.
In GOTG 6, Nova admits out loud to Gamora that he loved Peter.

When Peter returns from Morinus, both cosmically and personally awakened, the two GOTG teams reconcile.
Star-Lord, Gamora and Nova transform GOTG into an official superhero team with the three of them as leaders.

All of this culminates in GOTG 18, where Star-Lord admits to Gamora that he loves Nova too and she says "I know. That makes it better."
The run ends with the three of them hugging each other while Peter says "It'll last as long as it does. Let's enjoy the break while we have it".
This scene is framed by them surrounded by other couples (Wiccan+Hulkling, Hercules+Nova, Moondragon+Phyla-Vell) kissing each other.
It's obvious that they were in a polyamourous romantic relationship at that point.

I also get the feeling that Ewing was inspired by the Cyclops / Jean Grey / Wolverine throuple from X-Men when he wrote this one.

And also (on the writer's side) :

https://al-ewing-writes-comics.ghost.io/190423/

Ewing : "To single out Juann especially - his experimental, wild, genius-level storytelling sense really guided what the book became right from the start, and issue #9 in particular - "I Shall Make You A Star-Lord" - is in the running to be one of the best single issues I've ever been involved with, and one that changed my thinking and arguably my life on a personal level. (With #6, "Same Time Next Week", as another strong contender.) Writing that got me to take a good look at myself, to understand that I was sending all these fictional characters on journeys of self-discovery because I was afraid to take one myself, to admit that, yes, the feelings I had counted for something, that they were enough. I'm enough. We're all enough. I came out as bi a few months later, and the response from a lot of readers was "I always knew he was family."

That's what Guardians will always be, for me. A book about family."

[Micabe]

Yes, it was implied in Ewing's GOTG run that Rich might have more-than-friends feelings towards Peter Quill, most notably in a scene in issue #6 where Nova tells Gamora "I loved him too." Although one could assume that he simply meant platonic love, the way the scene was presented on the page suggested something more. The panel where Richard says it is an extra large panel that takes up more than half the page--with it being a close-up of Rich's face as he makes this emotional reveal. That strongly hints the panel was intended to be a more weighty "reveal" than just "I loved him like a brother"or something, since that was already long-established for years. A statement like that would not warrant a panel like that.

Please be specific and clarify... What was already long-established for years? Meantime, let's just review the sequence of events that led down this path, shall we?

[Micabe]

My take on that little back and forth between Richard and Gamora didn't strike me as Rich crying about missing the opportunity to take Quill to bed

[Dermie]

Please be specific and clarify... What was already long-established for years?

Exactly what I said -- the fact that Rich and Peter were close friends who loved each other (in a platonic/like brothers way) had been long established, starting in the original ANNIHILATION and confirmed various times in various GOTG and NOVA books throughout the years since then.

My take on that little back and forth between Richard and Gamora didn't strike me as Rich crying about missing the opportunity to take Quill to bed

I realize that you're just trying to be playful there, but no one ever said or implied that Rich was crying because he didn't get to have sex with Quill so I find that remark a bit tasteless and offensive to be honest.

The scene is talking about his feelings, about loving Peter. It is presented as a dramatic reveal -- both with the big close-up panel of Rich as he says it, and in the lead-up panel with Rich telling his therapist that he tried to tell himself not to say it out loud, etc. There is no reason for it to be presented that way if Rich is just talking about loving Peter as a friend.

[Sutekh]

The scene is talking about his feelings, about loving Peter. It is presented as a dramatic reveal -- both with the big close-up panel of Rich as he says it, and in the lead-up panel with Rich telling his therapist that he tried to tell himself not to say it out loud, etc. There is no reason for it to be presented that way if Rich is just talking about loving Peter as a friend.

And if he's telling his therapist that he wrestled with saying out loud that he loved a longtime friend *like a friend* the boy is way more ****ed-up than I thought.

That's like 'and then I told my therapist about this deep conflict I was having about saying out loud that water is wet.'

[Arachne]

I didn't read it as romantic, at all. I thought Rich was questioning saying he loved Peter because he knew comparing his friendship to Gamora's romance would just make things worse between him and Gamora.

Full disclaimer: I've got no problem with Rich being bi, but I don't like when longterm friendships suddenly become romances, regardless of the gender of those involved. (I'm still annoyed that Moonstar had a fling with Cannonball.) I just think that a lot of people, and the entertainment industry as whole, devalue the importance of friendships.

[Will Evans]

I didn't read it as romantic, at all. I thought Rich was questioning saying he loved Peter because he knew comparing his friendship to Gamora's romance would just make things worse between him and Gamora.

Full disclaimer: I've got no problem with Rich being bi, but I don't like when longterm friendships suddenly become romances, regardless of the gender of those involved. (I'm still annoyed that Moonstar had a fling with Cannonball.) I just think that a lot of people, and the entertainment industry as whole, devalue the importance of friendships.

So I guess you’d be opposed to any Dani/Rahne or Dani/KArma too?

[Arachne]

Yep. Also, Amara/Roberto. That never made sense to me. I really don't like the idea of any of the original New Mutants in a romantic relationship with each other. The one possible exception would be Doug/Rahne because they had a crush on each other in the original series.

I enjoy a good fictional romance, but I'm ace, so platonic relationships are pretty important to me.

[Sutekh]

Yep. Also, Amara/Roberto. That never made sense to me. I really don't like the idea of any of the original New Mutants in a romantic relationship with each other. The one possible exception would be Doug/Rahne because they had a crush on each other in the original series.

I enjoy a good fictional romance, but I'm ace, so platonic relationships are pretty important to me.

It is difficult to find good cross-gender friendships. It would be nice to see more focus on friendships between mutants, and not just Sam/Roberto same-sex friendships. Dani and Sam seemed like friends-but-no-'benefits' at times, and that was neat to see.

That said, Dani/Rahne often came across as vaguely romantic in that Claremont way, and Roberto/Sam have been trending in a romantic direction (at least, Roberto's feeling for Sam has, Sam seems to remain 100% hetero). It's a squiffy line we don't see much in fiction, loving friends who aren't romantically interested in each other (which is certainly a valid interpretation of the Rich Ryder/Star-Lord thing, it's more than possible to love someone without wanting to boink them, but that sort of love is even more weirdly controversial than the actual sex these days!).

[Arachne]

Your right about it being hard to find cross-gender friendships.

Yeah, Rahne and Dani could have been interpreted that way, but then Dani said she was straight in New Mutants vol. 2. I can't see Dani saying that if she was ever attracted to a woman. She's just too in-your-face for that. I'm not saying that she could never be attracted to a woman, just that she hadn't been at that point.

Also, Dani once said something about Rahne "bringing out the mother in her", or something to that effect. That would make romantic feelings between them feel a little weird. To me, anyway.

I could almost see Roberto having romantic feelings for Sam, but why would they develop now and not earlier? That just seems strange. I think he is totally jealous of Izzy getting more of Sam's time than he does, though, but friends can get jealous, too.

[scourge]

Your right about it being hard to find cross-gender friendships.

Yeah, Rahne and Dani could have been interpreted that way, but then Dani said she was straight in New Mutants vol. 2. I can't see Dani saying that if she was ever attracted to a woman. She's just too in-your-face for that. I'm not saying that she could never be attracted to a woman, just that she hadn't been at that point.

Also, Dani once said something about Rahne "bringing out the mother in her", or something to that effect. That would make romantic feelings between them feel a little weird. To me, anyway.

I could almost see Roberto having romantic feelings for Sam, but why would they develop now and not earlier? That just seems strange. I think he is totally jealous of Izzy getting more of Sam's time than he does, though, but friends can get jealous, too.

That's how it goes sometimes. Especially for people trying to deny them or confused what feelings might mean.

Out of universe it could be that writers weren't allowed to actually come out and say it instead of just subtext.

Honestly, I'd be all for Roberto and Nova (hell even Sam too) coming out as not straight. All of them gave me that vibe and even if none of them end up in any way together I think it'd be good.


And this isn't a knock against anyone here but every time someone goes "Why can't two guys just be friends without being shipped?!" I have to roll my eyes. Like they seem to believe there's no male friendships in existence out there...like we haven't been getting TONS and TONS of 'just friends' in all of fiction for ages.